Kind of a dumb vanity question for andy Army vets out there.

Saving Private Ryan | 6/14/13 | DoodleDawg

[DoodleDawg]

I walked into the family room the other day and my boyfriend was watching Saving Private Ryan for like the umpteenth time. It't the scene where they've left the beach and they're walking through the countryside just before the rain started. Then I noticed; all the soldiers are holding their rifles at about a 45 degree angle to their body, muzzle high and the butt lowered. But when you see modern day army troops walking patrol on the news it seems reversed; the muzzle of the M-16 is pointing down and the butt at or above the shoulder. When did the approved method of carrying the rifle change? And why?

[ArrogantBustard]

Brits at Gallipoli

[TurboZamboni]

In the Algore army you point the muzzle at your face.

[ArrogantBustard]

May, 1918 ... poor bastards ...

[ArrogantBustard]

Apparently, the Russkis did it too ...

[PeteB570]

Spoken like somebody who has carried a version of both.

Pistol Grip, Stock, Stock weigth, barrel length, etc, etc.

All anybody has to do is get a copy of each style and do a little point and aim in the back yard.

That pistol grip makes a big difference.

[Strategerist]

Other thing in Private Ryan is that there’s one B.A.R. being carried as well.

Everyone walking in “one grenade takes us out” groupings (easier to film, easier to converse) is endemic to all movies and TV and I don’t see that ever changing, though I think Black Hawk Down was much better in that respect.

[ArrogantBustard]

For reference, this is how they marched:

[dblshot]

Shotguns are carried at port arms when bird hunting because it is easier to bring the butt to your shoulder when tracking a bird. The M1 was not a spray and pray weapon, one actually had to bring it ones shoulder to sight so port arms supports this move. M16’s are more accurately fired in the butt to shoulder position but I think we can surmise from the 10000 rounds to one kill ratio in Vietnam that accuracy was a second thought except for snipers who didn't use plastic guns that go boing when the spring compresses. OTOH M1 weight is more than an M16 and as noted above the iron in them rusts fast.

[MrEdd]

Low ready does kind of suck after you fix bayonets.

[going hot]

Mostly taught to carry at port arms, because that was what was in the manual. However, as wars became more closely fought, and the enemy was closer and closer, rifles were carried more at the ready. Even in wwI or wwII, if in the bush, and enemy close, rifles were carried pointed forward at the ready. In the nam, parachord was used to tie to the front sight and the stock thus enabling the rifle to hang at the ready off the shoulder.

The movies of earlier soldiers portrayed the carrying the rifle at port arms because that is what the soldiers did if not engaged in close combat. however, the movies would often show them at port arms even in close combat, wheras, in reality, the rifle would be held more ready to engage in actual combat, because the GI was actually there, scared Shiite less, and ready to pull the trigger at any sign of movement in the bush.

[ArrogantBustard]

But enough of the War to End All Wars.

Krauts on the march, WWII:

Yanks, Brits, Aussies, Canucks, Kiwis, Russkis, Japs (did I forget anybody?) all carried their RIFLES the same way when marching.

[ArrogantBustard]

I am trying very hard NOT to post stills from movies. FWIW.

Low Ready sucks with a full length battle rifle even when you don't have a bayonet fixed ...

I'll post a few from WWII of Soldiers with carbines or SMGs for comparison.

[going hot]

BTW, nice pics.

[ArrogantBustard]

Brits in Italy, WWII:

[Leaning Right]

We should all be kept informed by the veterans of the andy army.

My favorite Andy is NYPD Blue's Andy Sipowicz.

Andy on Youtube

[going hot]

Low ready sucks with a full length rifle with bayonet affixed for the same reason a long spear carried low sucks. it cannot be brought to bear quickly, especially in bush.

Bottom line, the actual combatant will carry any weapon based on the environment and type of danger likely to spring out of the foliage or countryside.

. In the movies, most scenes of battle ready troopers shucking and jiving down the lane with rifles pointed to the sun or slung on shoulders is used to make some movie point, other than the fact that they in fact are ready to be all killed in a snap of the fingers with their pants down.

[ArrogantBustard]

Thanks.

Russian with PPSh (I think) (May, 1942, Berlin) ... carried very differently from a rifle:

[ArrogantBustard]

More Russkis with PPSh at low ready

[A.A. Cunningham]

The Old Guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier carries their weapons the old way.

They aren't out on patrol locked and loaded in the bush and right or left shoulder arms or port arms or present arms is SOP when walking a post.

[going hot]

zactly. If he was expecting sniper fire from the upper stories, he would be carrying that firearm at port arms. Carrying at the ready, with sling over his neck frees his hands for grabbing stuff that is in the way, and still has the fire arm ready to fire at the blink of an eye.