Posted on 06/08/2013 9:00:01 PM PDT by Colofornian
Lds "rethink" on this took place on this date...June 8...1978!
(I guess the Mormon god was wrong all that time!)
Mormon’s shouldn’t apologize. That would be like trying to fix a broken religion. They should just abandon Joseph Smith’s cult and enbrace traditional Christianity.
Mormon’s shouldn’t apologize. That would be like trying to fix a broken religion. They should just abandon Joseph Smith’s cult and enbrace traditional Christianity.
They should apologize for Romney though.
They should apologize for Romney though.
can we please stop eating our own?.....
This is the Religion Forum, hence the religious discussion.
Really, conservative...apparently you have not been paying attention.
My dear friend in Christ,
Please stop your attack on Mormonism.
I am not LDS, but I know many who are Mormons who I would be glad to have as neighbors. You are NOT seeing them as children of God, but as something way less than God sees.
In my less than humble opinion, you will not receive any kudos from God for your alienating posts about Mormons. You may be free to disagree with them about how they receive Christ as their Savior, but your rabid attacks will not be pleasing to God, nor will you be successful in getting them to see God as you do. There is too much of your vitriol present to open the possibility for dialogue.
As a matter of full disclosure, I am a Catholic who attends the traditional form of Mass, and I have resided in Colorado since 1978.
Our Lord Jesus Christ is the Savior of all of us. Let us all act accordingly.
God bless.
Sursum Corda
You do understand this is the Religion Forum and this is a discussion about a religion called mormonism - right?
“In my less than humble opinion, you will not receive any kudos from God for your alienating posts about Mormons. “
“I have taught for thirty years, and still teach, that he that believeth in his heart and confesseth with his mouth that Jesus is the Christ and that Joseph Smith is his Prophet to this generation, is of God; and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fulness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is anti-christ.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p.312
“No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are... [Joseph Smith] reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim—”Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!” But it is true.” - Propht Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289-91
“If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by Joseph Smith; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him.” -1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142, Apostle George Q. Cannon
Let the LDS renounce these charlatans, and then we’ll meet for dialogue!
When being conservative becomes more important than spiritual matters, then we'll consider it. And that will never happen.
And we're not trying to destroy Mormons, we're trying to win them for Christ. Not the man promoted to Godhood, Christ of Mormonism, but the Christ of the Old and New Testament, the Eternal God incarnate of Scripture.
Bishop Romney who as a Priest and missionary would have been teaching this racism and who was in his 30s (Star Wars and Animal House were hits at the time) when his God told his Prophet that he had changed his mind, just won your vote for president, just a few months ago, as he was campaigning against the GOP’s pro-life platform, and as a proponent of homosexualizing the Boy Scout leaders and the military.
By the way, Mormons aren’t particularly patriotic, at least judging by military service and I guess you know that no man in Romney’s 170 year line, has ever served us in uniform, he himself was a draft evader and his five sons all rejected military service, no draft or war has ever gotten one of his, not in their entire 170 year history here.
So,
Is it that your POV (point of view) that I may not have a POV which differs from yours?
How have I broken faith with the tenets of the religion forum by having an opinion that does not agree with yours?
Sursum Corda
If you are Catholic, then you might know that your denomination says that Mormonism is not Christian, it is a different religion created by Joseph Smith.
My response? Please stop your attack upon my own Christian worldview, especially if you deem that religious worldviews of others are not to be challenged. IF they are not to be challenged, per your own worldview, then what in the world are you doing challenging mine?
(Some consistency on your part would be nice here)
I am not LDS, but I know many who are Mormons who I would be glad to have as neighbors.
Ya know, I not only have Mormons as neighbors, but Mormons as family members.
And...ya do know...doncha...that a true Christian's goal isn't to have Mormons as earthly neighbors ONLY, but eternal neighbors. The Mormons haven't given up Christians as a "mission field"; therefore, the key question here is: Why have you (at first glance) given them up as one?
If you were living among the Pharisees in Jesus' day, the goal would be to have them as ETERNAL neighbors...not tell Jesus to silence his critiques of them (see Matthew 23; John 8, for example).
You are NOT seeing them as children of God, but as something way less than God sees.
So when Jesus called the legalists of His time--the Pharisees--as children of the devil (John 8), was he guilty by your verdict, too, of "seeing them...less than God" saw them?
Were you to actually take a look @ this chart carefully, you'd note that Mormons ALREADY alienate Christians as distinct from themselves:
Snapshot of Joseph Smith’s Slanderous Invectives vs. Christian Sects |
Mormon Source[Note: Most of these are Mormon ‘scriptures'. In fact, First three rows below are Lds 'scripture' & therefore cannot be rug-swept any more than a Jew might try to take three commandments off of the very tablets of stone Moses brought down from the mountain] |
| “...which of all the sects was right… must join NONE of them, for they were ALL WRONG… those professors were ALL CORRUPT…” | Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price |
| ...“which of all the sects was right…ALL their CREEDS were an ABOMINATION in his sight…they teach for doctrines the commandments of MEN…” | Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price |
| Mormon church the only ‘Christ-sanctioned’ church on earth: “…the foundation of this [Mormon] church…the ONLY true and living church on the face of the whole earth” [Obvious ‘scorched earth’ implication: All other churches are false and dead] | Lds “scripture” Doctrines & Covenants 1:30 |
| Direct question asked of Joseph Smith: 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?" Answer from Lds "prophet" Joseph Smith: 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." | Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119 [Not “scripture” – but still publicly spoken by the Mormon ‘living prophet’ and published by a later Mormon ‘living prophet,’ Joseph Fielding Smith – via a publisher owned by the Mormon church – Deseret News Press, 1938] |
| “In 1952…the first official proselyting plan was sent to missionaries throughout the world…It included seven missionary discussions that emphasized…[four topics, one of them being]…THE APOSTASY and Restoration…” [This makes it 60 years that Mormon church missionaries, now numbering 55,000, have formally emphasized in its training & door to door saturation a priority in bashing the worldwide Christian church as “apostates” (100% AWOL)] | Our Heritage: A Brief History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints p. 116, 1996 |
I’ll never understand the obsession some people have with Mormons. It’s a church. If you don’t like that church, you are perfectly free to go to another church you do like. They’re not blowing things up, they’re not interfering with your life (except when you say you don’t have time for the white-shirted guys on bikes). Just don’t get it.
Please read the following & then answer this question: Did Jesus commit "rabid" attacks upon the Pharisees & teachers of the law of His time? How about the apostle Paul (same question)?
Verse consideration #1: Jesus called the Pharisees "blind guides" (Matt. 15:13). Somebody who is a guide is more involved with others than people who simply have a bad heart condition. The fact is these teachers of the law were the spiritual surgeons of their day. Would you want such a blind surgeon operating on you? The issue we're talking about here is not simply that the Pharisees' own heart condition was poor -- but that they were involved in teaching, guiding many others! We need to understand the cultural dimension of this in light of Luke 11:52 -- that the Pharisees took away the key to knowledge.
Verse consideration #2: [Yet another example of exported legalism] Matt. 23:4: They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on OTHER PEOPLE'S shoulders..."
Verse consideration #3: You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. (Matt 23:13)
The Pharisees consistently rejected the Lord's teaching of truth; and Jesus, much to your apparent chagrin, criticized them rather openly for it. Here's yet another example:
Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” (John 8:46-47)
You need to even look @ the broader context of the last part of John 8 -- where Jesus references the Pharisees as "children of the devil."
I don't think somebody can be more "harsh" in speaking the truth than to say to a group of religious people:
(a) "You don't belong to God"
(b) And the reason you don't belong to God is because you don't hear the truth He speaks ("hears what God says")
(c) And you reject the truth I'm telling you right now ("you do not believe me...why don't you believe me?")
(d) And on top of that (the broader context of John 8), you are of your father, the devil, whose native language is lies!
There is too much of your vitriol present to open the possibility for dialogue. [Sursum Corda]
How did the apostle Paul deal with the legalistically-minded Galatians? Paul referenced the legalistic Galatians twice as "foolish" and once as "bewitched" a gentle exhortation?
Seemingly vitriolic, right?
More Jesus on the legalists:
Matt. 15:9: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Matt. 16:12: ...guard against the yeast...against the TEACHING of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Luke 11:52: ... you have taken away the key to knowledge.
John 8:44,47: You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies…The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.
Matthew 23:2-4: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
Mark 7:6-8,13: He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 7 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ 8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” …13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”
Matthew 23:2-7, 13-34 : 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. 5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.
13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.
23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
“I’ll never understand the obsession some people have with Mormons. It’s a church.”
It’s a non-Christian church that claims Christianity is the whore of Babylon.
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