“That may be your rule, but all of the many first responders I personally know have put their own lives in jeopardy going into burning buildings, cars, and airplanes whenever they could be of aid to others.”
Ok. Am I talking about first responders or am I talking about the average person caught in a house fire. I’m talking to the average person caught in a house fire. They need to get out. They are not a first responder - they are not trained to deal with the situation.
“There is not enough information in the article to determine definitively whether it was cowardice, but based on the facts presented it certainly appears to be a major factor.”
Now, that the facts have confirmed that:
1, the firemen already knew that the kid was dead, now, it make sense what the police officer did by saving the life of the father? It’s a damn good thing he did too, because otherwise there would be two funerals and not one.
There’s absolutely nothing cowardly about choosing to accept reality here. Kid was dead. Nothing more could be done.
“Your overly simplistic analysis completely neglects the likelihoods involved of the danger”
Actually, I had the situation pegged. There was exactly zero benefit to him going in and risking his life for someone already dead. No risk was acceptable in this circumstance.
“Most people I know would gladly put themselves at some risk to provide others a significant hope.”
Not with the kid being dead, there’s simply no point in risking someone’s life.
“Your faulty absolutist view does not allow for a rescuer to take even a very small risk for an almost certain rescue.”
‘Certain rescue’? There was certainty, but it wasn’t a rescue.
“Now we can all see where you developed this odd point of view.”
I was trained how to get out. We never had a single fire. God willing never will.
“I would hate to be born into your family.”
Best cause is preventation. Plan for the worst but do what you can to prevent being in the situation in the first place.
“I hope you never find yourself in any danger, you would be on your own!”
Yeah, I had parents who loved me enough to teach me how to be self-reliant in the situation where I was in danger and gave me the skills necessary to look after myself. Yeah, they really didn’t love me at all there.
“And whatever you do, don’t slow down to save someone else! Am I starting to figure you out?”
Like I said, we did drills. Timed drills. I said this exact same thing to my father so he said - well, let’s try it your way. So we did. Fire alarm came, my father went to go check up on me, I went to go check up on my father, my mother on us, my brothers on each other.
By the time we all managed to find the other, we were still in the house and now clustered together. We still had to find the exit of the house and get out.
We didn’t make it in 10 minutes and my dad said, “you’re dead”.
Point driven home.
We did it his way, and we consistantly got everyone out of the house in 10 minutes easily. Everyone knew his job and where to go and where to meet up. Nobody had to stop and figure things out we all knew what to do when it happened.
Escape plans either work or they do not. You don’t have time to fix it if it doesn’t work. It has to be right the first time.
“Can you see that?”
How so? Like I said, escape plans either work or they do not.
“And from everything you have posted here, you aren’t even a man. I pity you.”
Yawn. Ronaldus minimus apparently has forgotten Ronald’s rules about personal attacks.
Trying to tie up the debate in ambiguity seems...cowardly.
I’m talking to the average person caught in a house fire. They need to get out. They are not a first responder - they are not trained to deal with the situation.
You made no such distinction. From your post #32, "First lesson of a fire - if you are out do not go back in." Your statement was absolute, and cowardly, regardless of whom you now attempt to retroactively direct it toward.
Now, that the facts have confirmed that:
Decisions are made with the information available at the time. Unless a the baby was physically examined and a diagnosis of death had been made, no one could say with any certainty that the child was already dead. The opinions of cowardly first responders standing outside the structure are both completely biased and completely unqualified to ascertain the status of a baby inside. The only thing that is certain is that the baby is dead now. Their culpability in the death is still in question.
1, the firemen already knew that the kid was dead, now,
No he could not have know that at that time, although I am sure that these cowards are trying to find some solace in that false claim.
it make sense what the police officer did by saving the life of the father?
There is no indication whether they did or did not save the father's life with their cowardly actions. The only aspect of this that can be known for certain is that they prevented any chance of anyone saving the baby.
It’s a damn good thing he did too, because otherwise there would be two funerals and not one.
Again, cowards try to excuse cowardly behavior by completely ignoring likelihoods and instead retroactively dwelling solely on the negative outcomes which were created by their cowardice.
There’s absolutely nothing cowardly about choosing to accept reality here. Kid was dead. Nothing more could be done.
The was no way of know what the reality was. All their cowardice did was to insure the death of that child.
Actually, I had the situation pegged.
The excuses and equivocations of the cowardly first responders do nothing to bolster your defense of their cowardice. They could not have been certain, and neither can you be.
There was exactly zero benefit to him going in and risking his life for someone already dead.
Again, they could not have known the baby was already dead since they were too cowardly to go in and find out if the baby was still alive.
No risk was acceptable in this circumstance.
According to your cowardly post #32, no risk is ever acceptable regardless of the circumstance.
Not with the kid being dead, there’s simply no point in risking someone’s life.
You go right ahead and keep telling yourself that the baby was already dead when no one at the time could have definitely made that determination. It's what cowards do.
“Your faulty absolutist view does not allow for a rescuer to take even a very small risk for an almost certain rescue.” ‘Certain rescue’? There was certainty, but it wasn’t a rescue.
That was the general conclusion of your cowardly statements in your post #32 that "First lesson of a fire - if you are out do not go back in. and "That was our rule with a fire. Don’t look around for anybody else." If you would get out without saving anyone and would not go back in to save anyone, you wouldn't save anyone. That seems very cowardly.
I was trained how to get out. We never had a single fire. God willing never will.
From what you said about your family in post #32, you come from a family of cowards.
Best cause is preventation. Plan for the worst but do what you can to prevent being in the situation in the first place.
And if prevention fails, your family will abandon you or you will abandon them. At least there would be some sad justice in the mutual cowardice.
Yeah, I had parents who loved me enough to teach me how to be self-reliant in the situation where I was in danger and gave me the skills necessary to look after myself. Yeah, they really didn’t love me at all there.
I don't know what love could mean to someone too cowardly to put themselves at risk for someone they supposedly love. That's simply not love.
Like I said, we did drills. Timed drills. I said this exact same thing to my father so he said - well, let’s try it your way. So we did. Fire alarm came, my father went to go check up on me, I went to go check up on my father, my mother on us, my brothers on each other. By the time we all managed to find the other, we were still in the house and now clustered together. We still had to find the exit of the house and get out. We didn’t make it in 10 minutes and my dad said, “you’re dead”. Point driven home.
That is very sad, and sort of funny, on many levels. I reiterate that I would hate to be born into your family!
We did it his way, and we consistantly got everyone out of the house in 10 minutes easily. Everyone knew his job and where to go and where to meet up. Nobody had to stop and figure things out we all knew what to do when it happened.
Of course everyone got out, it was just a drill!!!
Escape plans either work or they do not. You don’t have time to fix it if it doesn’t work. It has to be right the first time.
And if anyone in your family finds they need help, they're on their own!
How so? Like I said, escape plans either work or they do not.
This goes back to your inability to comprehend likelihoods. No plan can possible anticipate every contingency or never require revision. To think otherwise is naive.
Yawn. Ronaldus minimus apparently has forgotten Ronald’s rules about personal attacks.
I have made no personal attacks. I have merely made logically unavoidable conclusions based on what you have written on this thread. And I do pity you.