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To: cloudmountain; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; Norm Lenhart
One of Alamo_Girl's sayings borrowed from I do not remember where, states that without Time events do not occur, and without space things do not exist. Space and Time are the 'where/when' of what is the Universe of God's Creating. Everything that IS in spacetime has aspects of a where/when. Things not in the Created Universe will not have some where/when ... and we are told by God that only HE, as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit exist without there having yet been a creation. Thus ONLY God can be outside of a where/when yet exist. He IS, however, not hindered from being in His Creation.

Since everything except God must have a where/when to exist, even Angels have some form of where/when. We humans have aspects of our existence which are in various where/when states.

Our body is in a where/when which ages and dies, dissolving into the elements from which it was composed. Our mind, will, and emotions--our soul of life which animates the body while connected thereto--is not existing solely in the same where/when as the body which dissolves. This, according to what God has given us to know from His instruction in the Bible.

BUT our soul does have some where/when of reality not the same as the where/when to which the body is limited, some temporal/spatial variabilities, variables which we have yet to even start to fathom because of our primitive conceptualization of dimension Time. I happen to believe that our Spirit, inherited from Adam into whom God 'breathed' the spirit, also has where/when variabilities which are not limited to those opf the soul where/when and the body where/when.

My question to the extra-terrestrials would be, "Do you have a spirit, or are you limited to just the where/when of your body and the where/when of your animating soul? My studies of the Bible over the past decades indicates to me that ONLY humankind, in all of God's Universe, is created with the tri-part body, soul, and spirit.

Jesus, God with us, chose this species, the humankind of His Creation, into which to take up physical, bodily existence. I believe He has used that body to move around in Time and in Space.

130 posted on 05/02/2013 8:56:05 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: NellieMae

As per your question at the luncheon, the pinged to post may be of some assistance in answering more directly than earlier today.


131 posted on 05/03/2013 10:38:38 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN; betty boop; cloudmountain; Norm Lenhart
Thank you so very much for your outstanding insights, dear MHGinTN!

My studies of the Bible over the past decades indicates to me that ONLY humankind, in all of God's Universe, is created with the tri-part body, soul, and spirit.

Indeed.

Truly, Scripture makes various distinctions between the physical body and the spiritual body (where/when or autonomy of a being.)

To me, the physical body of Adam and his line becomes relevant first as a result of Adam and Eve's shame resulting in God’s covering them with coats made of skins:

And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where [art] thou? And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I [was] naked; and I hid myself. And he said, Who told thee that thou [wast] naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? – Genesis 3:9-11

Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them. – Genesis 3:21

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. – Hebrews 9:22

Concerning the spiritual body, it is interesting to note that the Jewish mystics point to the Hebrew words nephesh, neshama and ruach used in Scripture to describe soul/mind/spirit.

More specifically, nephesh is the ordinary soul which all living creatures have (Genesis 1) and is returned to the earth upon death, e.g. plants, bacteria, insects, animals.

And neshama is the breath of God which Adam received in Genesis 2 whereby he became a living soul.

Further, according to the mystics, the ruach is the soul pivot whereby the man chooses to be Godly-minded (neshama) or earthly-minded (nephesh.) That choosing parallels Romans 8.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace. – Romans 8:5-6

Concerning spiritual bodies, the big difference between the Old Testament and the New is ruach Elohim the Spirit of God (Genesis 1) Himself Who we Christians receive and Who guides us (Romans 8, John 15, I Cor 2, etc.)

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) - John 7:38-39

And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. – John 1:33

Metaphysical naturalists, atheists, etc. would have us believe that the mind/soul/spirit is an illusion, an epiphenomenon. Epiphenomenons are secondary phenomenons which cannot cause anything to happen.

In that view, everything returns to the earth at death and new epiphenomenons begin at birth or conception.

But the Scripture speaks of creation being mindful:

For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body. - Romans 8:22-23

So perhaps all the microscopic organisms, insects, plant life and wildlife which only have nephesh and returned to the earth at death (according to the Jewish mystics) actually constitute a creature that is continually being reformed, a hive-mind so to speak that is grounded to the physical.

Conversely then, the living souls which have ruach (choice) and/or neshama (breath of God) would "phase change" (if P.S. Wesson is right in the article linked below) and continue "in" the creation past the death of the physical body, i.e. autonomous where/when.

Time as an Illusion

We review the idea, due to Einstein, Eddington, Hoyle and Ballard, that time is a subjective label, whose primary purpose is to order events, perhaps in a higher-dimensional universe. In this approach, all moments in time exist simultaneously, but they are ordered to create the illusion of an unfolding experience by some physical mechanism. This, in the language of relativity, may be connected to a hypersurface in a world that extends beyond spacetime. Death in such a scenario may be merely a phase change.

Wesson's theory does not consider Jewish mysticism and so the phase change would also apply to plants, animals, bacteria etc.

But despite all such speculation, we Christians being indwelt by ruach Elohim already exist "beyond" anything physical at all (including a phase change upon physical death):

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. - Colossians 3:3

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. - Romans 8:1-9

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? - I Corinthians 6:19

And so I strongly agree with you - no matter what life forms may exist in the universe, neshama and especially, ruach Elohim are uniquely given to us of God Himself.

God's Name is I AM.

132 posted on 05/05/2013 9:39:34 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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