Re: It is inherently wrong for government to tax citizens for education.
Yes, I believe that, but I doubt to see that Nirvana in my lifetime. Vouchers, tax credits, and charters are better than what we have now which is government owned and run price-fixed cartel schools.
Re: Government run schools since the settlement of this nation by Europeans
I do not believe one group of politically powerful people should tax others to support their non-neutral cultural, religious, and political worldview, and this is what all schools do.
Re: Modern Government schooling
I make this distinction because Horace Mann's philosophy, the passage of compulsory school attendance laws ( mid 1800s to early 1900s) and compulsory state provision of schooling, is the philosophic and structural foundation upon which our modern system of government schooling rests.
Re: All schooling is inherently religious
It is. All schools must choose between a godless or God-centered worldview. This religiously non-neutral worldview will drive the content of curriculum and school policies which, in turn, can not be religiously neutral. It is for this reason that we must begin the process of privatizing education. Government shouldn't be in the business of putting its imprimatur on an education that can not be religiously neutral.
Re: Founders
They would be appalled to see the outcome of compulsory government owned and run, socialist-funded and single-payer schooling. Surely, they wished to see a population that was literate, numerate, and well-educated, but government schooling is not providing an education. Our appalling illiteracy and innumeracy rates are proof enough of that.
I stand with our Founders. I too would like to see a well-educated citizenry. This is one of the best reasons to begin the process of privatizing the delivery of schooling.
“Re: It is inherently wrong for government to tax citizens for education.
“Yes, I believe that, but I doubt to see that Nirvana in my lifetime. Vouchers, tax credits, and charters are better than what we have now which is government owned and run price-fixed cartel schools.”
Okay. This is a novel idea in America. As I've pointed out, government has been involved in funding and running schools since at least the end of the 17th century in what became the United States. The Founders were familiar with government schools and took little notice, no less offense, while some of them and their contemporaries went about the business of establishing or building up government-funded and -run schools. The arguments over public education about which I've read were about how the government should fund them, degrees of centralization versus local control, how to control costs, how to establish parity between different localities in a single state, but not about WHETHER it is acceptable for government to fund or run schools.
To persuade those who don't already agree with you, need to make a rather strong case for this proposition, on its own, apart from any other. If you don't make such a case, then you should really reduce the level of rhetoric against those with whom you disagree.
” Re: Government run schools since the settlement of this nation by Europeans
“I do not believe one group of politically powerful people should tax others to support their non-neutral cultural, religious, and political worldview, and this is what all schools do.”
That's sort of a reiteration of your first answer, but I see what you're getting at. My response is pretty much the same as to the last issue.
Some of your other answers are either a little repetitive or not exactly on point.
“Re: Founders
“They would be appalled to see the outcome of compulsory government owned and run, socialist-funded and single-payer schooling. Surely, they wished to see a population that was literate, numerate, and well-educated, but government schooling is not providing an education. Our appalling illiteracy and innumeracy rates are proof enough of that.”
I don't think they'd be upset by the model of government-funded and -run schools. After all, they participated in setting up the first government-funded and -run schools, they and their contemporaries.
They might not like a lot of other things about public schools, but they were mostly pretty intelligent men, and many having received a classical education, were adept at logic.
You haven't shown that the inevitable outcome of government-funded and -run schools is the mess we have now.
“I stand with our Founders. I too would like to see a well-educated citizenry. This is one of the best reasons to begin the process of privatizing the delivery of schooling.”
No, you don't. They believed that through self-government, the people could establish government-funded and -run schools to provide education to their progeny.
Like I said, maybe the Founders were wrong and you're right. But at this point, you're making assertions not supported by actual logical arguments.
Don't be surprised if other people of good will think you're wrong. Very wrong.
For my part, there are many things with which I agree with you, others that I don't, and still others where I haven't made up my mind. Thus, I'm about as friendly an audience as you're ever going to have among people who don't march lock-step with you.
But I've been reading these threads for a very long time. Once upon a time, I used to read your posts, as I found a lot of points of agreement. But as you became increasingly strident, as you seemed to accuse anyone involved in public schooling of bad faith, and as your failure to make logical arguments for your more novel assertions, it got to the point where, on homeschooling threads, I just use my mouse to completely pass your posts by.
Nothing you have ever written as made me re-think what I think on any small, single point concerning education. You're ineffective in your style and in how you present your content. You are not doing God's work, here. I recommend that you rethink your approach.
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