Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

To: GeronL
I can't agree with “no one knew where or when”. We knew that Japan had the carrier forces to attack Hawaii and had broken their code, The whereabouts of the Japanese carrier force was unknown, which should have put us on a heightened alert but FDR, Marshall, et al. were welcoming an attack. FDR was truly upset when he gave his “day of infamy” speech because he didn't think that the attack would cripple us so.
He was rarely double crossed and was pissed off! It was FDR's saying, “In politics, nothing happens by accident”.

Read “At Dawn We Slept”, the commission blamed the Army and the Navy (Admirals and Generals are expendable)but never even mentioned the White House. My guess is that it was a set up to put the blame in Hawaii.

5 posted on 12/10/2011 1:23:33 PM PST by BatGuano (You don't think I'd go into combat with loose change in my pocket, do ya?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies ]


To: BatGuano
Get a hold of “And I Was There” by Admiral Layton. He was the intelligence officer to Kimmel (and later Nimitz), and offers a great perspective of the state of codebreaking and intelligence before and after Dec. 7.

I don't believe we had broken the Naval operational code by then, only the diplomatic code. We could read the “East Wind Rain” message, but couldn't put a location of where the attack would be.

6 posted on 12/10/2011 1:40:00 PM PST by al44
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies ]

To: BatGuano; Hojczyk
I can't agree with “no one knew where or when”. We knew that Japan had the carrier forces to attack Hawaii and had broken their code,

Japan had a naval force that could strike pretty much anywhere in the Pacific and Indian Ocean. Hawaii is but one speck in that vast expanse of potential targets.

The whereabouts of the Japanese carrier force was unknown,

Incorrect. Through masterful radio deception, the Japanese main fleet was believed by U.S. intelligence to be in home waters.

which should have put us on a heightened alert

U.S. forces in Hawaii had recently been on high alert. U.S. forces in the Philippines were on high alert. MacArthur had all available aircraft in the air but the timing was a few hours off. The Japanese struck the airfields after the planes returned to base to refuel.

FDR, Marshall, et al. were welcoming an attack.

That FDR was seeking a way to join the war in Europe is no secret. The Japanese were of secondary concern to FDR.

FDR was truly upset when he gave his “day of infamy” speech because he didn't think that the attack would cripple us so. He was rarely double crossed and was pissed off! It was FDR's saying, “In politics, nothing happens by accident”.

If FDR was pissed, it was most likely because with ample indication of imminent hostilities, U.S. commanders at Pearl allowed themselves to be so unprepared.

Read “At Dawn We Slept”, the commission blamed the Army and the Navy (Admirals and Generals are expendable)but never even mentioned the White House. My guess is that it was a set up to put the blame in Hawaii.

The only ones surprised by the attack were U.S. commanders at Pearl harbor.

7 posted on 12/10/2011 1:52:23 PM PST by fso301
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies ]

To: BatGuano; Homer_J_Simpson

I saw that someone posted a copy of the FDR speech and some things were crossed out and replaced. It made the speech a lot more direct and a lot better, IMO. I guess speechwriters didn’t improve because I heard Reagan would change out a lot of weasel words too.


10 posted on 12/10/2011 2:00:32 PM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson