Posted on 10/30/2011 9:02:17 PM PDT by Kevmo
We only have Rossi’s claim that there is a customer.
***Also the claims of the others who were there.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2800077/posts
Unfortunately, if Rossi hired a bunch of actors to pretend to be the customer reps, created an elaborate year-long special-effects-derived series of demos, bribed, hypnotised or otherwise fooled Focardi, Levi, Kullander, Essen, Bianchini, Stremmenos and convinced a bunch of Greek crooks to set up a dummy company called Defkalion to pretend to fight with him over the non-existent eCat, to perpetuate the illusion and spin it off into a competing mirror-scam and convinced his former partners to set up another company called Ampenergo to pretend that they had a contract for The Americas for a substantial sum or that they just did this with no proof because they have worked with Rossi and trust him because he’s such a fine fellow, arranged for Piantelli, Miley and a host of others to try to fool the world into thinking that cold fusion was real, got NASA, SPAWAR, The Defense Threat Reduction Agency and The Defense Intelligence Agency to say nice things about the field, got Bushnell to make a fool of himself, sold his profitable company to his ex-partners in order to spend that wealth on a multi-million dollar scam; certain that once he got all the above ducks in a row he would pretend to sell the first device and then reel in the true target of his dastardly plan – the second (this time genuine) buyer of a 1MW plant that will net him $2 million dollars until they want their money back or sucker a $100 million dollar deal under the table because he has experience in pulling the wool over all these idiotic eyes and knows that they will just take his word for it and not want to test if his 1MW plant can heat a small village without truckloads of coal or oil or a big fat electric cable coming into the container from beneath the floor (no you can’t lift the carpet!) and that, in order to pull this off, Rossi had to risk discovery by interviewing all the people he subsequently fooled so that he could only invite the gullible Professors and not the brilliant anonymous posters on the Internet who surely would have found him out – then all bets are off and I’m with the guys who think that Rossi is an idiot and they are all geniuses .
Thanks for the link. I’d love to buy one.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62
It appears that a relatively innocuous post responding to you was pulled.
This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.
55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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That’s easy. He’s trying to get investors.
***Then his payoff is in the future, right? There is no evidence on the ground right now that it is a scam, right now. Rossi has nothing to gain right now; his supposed scam payoff is in the future.
The most sophisticated scam in history.
I look at this whole thing not as a lawyer, but as a scientist.
***Then do you accept that the Pons-Fleischmann effect has been replicated more than 14,700 times? I do not know of any other scientific fact that scientists are so afraid of acknowledging.
What do you post, about 2-4 blogs postings a day about this scam?
Feel free to prove that it is a scam, or even give evidence that we have not heard. Most of your colleagues haven’t even seagulled onto that thread. Why? Because when push comes to shove, they get most of their information about scams from watching fictional TV shows or movies.
How to Prove that the Rossi/Focardi eCAT LENR is Real (or Fake)
LENR.QUMBO.com ^ | April 6, 2011 | Alan Fletcher
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 7:52:15 PM by Kevmo
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2730401/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2800077/posts
Unfortunately, if Rossi hired a bunch of actors to pretend to be the customer reps, created an elaborate year-long special-effects-derived series of demos, bribed, hypnotised or otherwise fooled Focardi, Levi, Kullander, Essen, Bianchini, Stremmenos and convinced a bunch of Greek crooks to set up a dummy company called Defkalion to pretend to fight with him over the non-existent eCat, to perpetuate the illusion and spin it off into a competing mirror-scam and convinced his former partners to set up another company called Ampenergo to pretend that they had a contract for The Americas for a substantial sum or that they just did this with no proof because they have worked with Rossi and trust him because he’s such a fine fellow, arranged for Piantelli, Miley and a host of others to try to fool the world into thinking that cold fusion was real, got NASA, SPAWAR, The Defense Threat Reduction Agency and The Defense Intelligence Agency to say nice things about the field, got Bushnell to make a fool of himself, sold his profitable company to his ex-partners in order to spend that wealth on a multi-million dollar scam; certain that once he got all the above ducks in a row he would pretend to sell the first device and then reel in the true target of his dastardly plan – the second (this time genuine) buyer of a 1MW plant that will net him $2 million dollars until they want their money back or sucker a $100 million dollar deal under the table because he has experience in pulling the wool over all these idiotic eyes and knows that they will just take his word for it and not want to test if his 1MW plant can heat a small village without truckloads of coal or oil or a big fat electric cable coming into the container from beneath the floor (no you can’t lift the carpet!) and that, in order to pull this off, Rossi had to risk discovery by interviewing all the people he subsequently fooled so that he could only invite the gullible Professors and not the brilliant anonymous posters on the Internet who surely would have found him out – then all bets are off and I’m with the guys who think that Rossi is an idiot and they are all geniuses .
The most sophisticated scam in history.I've posted links to articles about more sophisticated scams, but you proudly stated that you won't bother reading them.
So says Rossi. We don’t have any actual evidence of this. All we have is Rossi’s claim, and his claim that his “secret company” was satisfied with the test. ***There were others there, like the author of this article. This is the first time I’ve caught you in a distortion. That’s unusual to find someone who can actually stick to the facts to a reasonable extent — until now, but I’ve lowered my standards for pathological skeptics.Saying that everyone there must be part of the scam is like saying that everyone at a Three-Card Monte game must be part of the scam.
You've made this mistake several times before. Do you have any evidence that the rest of the attendees had more information about the "secret" company than the rest of us? Or are they relying on the same "evidence" as the rest of us: Rossi's unsubstantiated claims?
Well, if by "applying the presumed laws of physics" you mean, isolating the device from inputs and measuring the output, I suppose you have a point.
I mean, whether it's "Jewish physics" or "male modes of thinking" or "white science", there's always an excuse why A does not equal A.
It is not necessary to presume any "laws" to validate or falsify Rossi's observations.
All that is necessary is replication, and the work shouldn't take an 8-hour day.
Tell exDemMom about the source of the 14700 number first, then we can form an opinion on whether it's a "fact."
I wasn't referring to a general measurement of inputs (I presume you refer to energy input) and outputs (again, I presume you mean energy outputs).
I was responding to a post where the poster said the device should be evaluated as to an expected, according the law of physics, elemental reaction. That poster wrote:
One merely needs to demonstrate that precise quantities of starting materials (nickel and hydrogen) entered the system, and that a precise quantity of copper and leftover starting materials resulted.
So, yes, many of focused on the desire for a more public measurement of how much energy the generator was inputting and exactly how much energy the e-CAT was outputting.
But, repeating for clarity: I understood this poster as saying another way to "scientifically" evaluate the reaction inside the e-CAT would be to compare "the precise quantities of starting materials (nickel and hydrogen)" to the precise quantities of ending materials, specifically copper.
What I was trying to say was that particular evaluation was based on a reaction *expected* solely on the "law of physics."
IOW, the law of physics says nickel and hydrogen react in such a way and copper is produced in such a way and the amounts of nickel and hydrogen that are input determine the amount of copper that is output in such a way.
If an inventor, say, stumbled upon a reaction that simply did not occur the way the law of physics said it "would" ("should") -- let's say there was no denying that something else was going on, and that something else was presently replicable BUT NOT EXPLAINABLE, but rather, in fact, it somehow CONTRADICTED the expected (orthodox) way in which these elements were "known" to react ---
As I said, why would an inventor take a process he knows is replicable, but is, at least at the moment, unorthodox, and subject it to "testing" by people who would only rigidly evaluate it against orthodoxy?
Here's a simple analogy:
Let's say there's a "law" (orthodoxy) that when you add known starting elements, food coloring in the primary colors blue and yellow together, the result is a known result, food coloring in the color green.
(Now, you could take this further, and talk about how the known starting quantities should result in a known shade of green, i.e., how much nickel and hydrogen is inputted should result in a known quantity of copper outputted. But that's an aside for now.)
What if a scientist applied a catalyst to the process of adding the blue and yellow food colors together. And no matter how many times he added them and applied the catalyst, the result was not green food coloring, but red food coloring.
Of course, the "law" of food coloring says there's no way adding blue and green food coloring together equals red food coloring.
But, there it is: red food coloring!
Why would that inventor subject his process to evaluation by people whom he knew would rigidly attempt to measure how much green food coloring (the orthodox result) was present at the completion of his process?
My point being: if the orthodox answer is that copper results when nickel and hydrogen combine, subjecting the inventor's process to an orthodox evaluation makes no sense when he knows the result of his process is unorthodox.
This was a philosophical point of discussion. It may or may not apply to Rossi's process.
If the Pons-Fleischmann effect involves hydrogen or deuterium fusing with hydrogen or deuterium, that is an event that would release energy. Rossi is supposedly fusing hydrogen with nickel, an event that would consume energy.
What does the first have to do with the second?
Do you have any evidence that the rest of the attendees had more information about the “secret” company than the rest of us?
***Yes. Rossi said that the customer reps could not be photographed. The other attendees saw them and we did not.
I see you’re here, and that posts are being removed from this thread.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62
It appears that a relatively innocuous post responding to you was pulled.
This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.
55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies | Report Abuse]
The Ni-H experiments were started after the D-Pd experiments and reported the same kind of excess heat, falling under the Pons-Fleischmann effect. It was much more difficult to get results in Ni-H systems than D-Pd systems.
Here is a typical Ni-H paper:
Violante, V., et al. Analysis Of Ni-Hydride Thin Film After Surface Plasmons Generation By Laser Technique - ICCF10
Do you have any evidence that the rest of the attendees had more information about the “secret” company than the rest of us?So, the other observers saw some people standing around. I guess that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were legit. It's not like Rossi could bring in some shills.
***Yes. Rossi said that the customer reps could not be photographed. The other attendees saw them and we did not.
All we know is that Rossi claimed to have secret representatives of a secret company. I haven't seen any reports from anyone else at the dog & pony show that provided even a hint that these secret representatives were legitimate. All we have is Rossi's word.
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