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To: opus86
Actually, the CCL holder did several things that are “wrong” from what he would have learned in a really good self-defense course that is focused on keeping him out of court.

First, when punched he should have shouted out “I fear for my life” rather than being silent. Being in fear for one’s life is justification in most cases for being allowed to pull a legally carried firearm from concealment and use it.

In some jurisdictions if you “just pull a concealed carry firearm and don't shoot anyone” the police will question you if you feared for your life. If you say something to the effect that you determined that you didn't need to shoot anyone because your life was not in danger or your were not afraid of serious bodily harm (or harm/death of another) than you may have admited guilt to escalating a non-deadly force confrontation into a deadly force confrontation. Which typically is called brandishing in may jurisdictions.

As to his drawing a firearm on the two “yoots” that came back for their bags and stuff, well technically he was probably thinking of himself as helping the police by detaining them without making a proper citizens arrest. In a lot of places that would have gotten him thrown in jail and possibly allowed the two “yoots” to sue him in civil court. Again, not a really wise thing to do, the way he did it, if what is reported in the story is correct.

The point of this comment is that when one takes the trouble to get a concealed carry license (and yes I have one) then one should spend some time learning about when deadly force (i.e. pointing a handgun at someone and probably killing them (to live)) is allowed by the law and when you are opening yourself up to lawsuits or jail time.

This guy was lucky that the police and prosecutor viewed him as a stand-up guy protecting himself. It could have turned out far worse for him.

10 posted on 08/03/2011 12:30:13 PM PDT by Robert357 (D.Rather "Hoist with his own petard!" www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1223916/posts)
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To: Robert357
First, when punched he should have shouted out “I fear for my life” rather than being silent.

Do CCL classes really teach people they need to verbally warn a mugger before firing? Like a warning shot or something? Giving up the element of a few precious seconds sounds like a pretty good way to get yourself killed.

I would never give a mugger a warning like that. His first warning would be the flash from the muzzle. If I aim correctly, ideally he should never hear the sound.

19 posted on 08/03/2011 12:59:10 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Oh, well, any excuse to buy a new gun is good enough for me.)
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To: Robert357

“when punched he should have shouted out “I fear for my life” rather than being silent. “

That’s urban legend. No court requires a person to make such a ridiculous statement. If you have the time and the mentality to say such a thing you probably are not in actual fear of your life and are simply grandstanding.


33 posted on 08/03/2011 1:38:48 PM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: Robert357

You make a good point, but I’d quibble with a couple of parts. You don’t have to yell “I fear for my life”... in fact if you have the presence of mind and can take the time to do that, it’s almost evidence that you’re ~not~ in immediate danger. :-)

As far as I know, there’s no official “citizen’s arrest” magic words. After neutralizing the threatening person (they drop the knife and give up...) you simple detain them by getting control and keeping them under control until the police get there— ideally by handcuffing them if you have ‘em, or zip-ties or whatever’s handy.

A pair of handcuffs (and a key!!) is a good and often overlooked accessory for a carry pistol. Just in case you don’t have to shoot, suddenly you’ve got a whole new problem of what to do with the guy. :-)


34 posted on 08/03/2011 1:45:28 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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