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To: allmendream

Yeah, I did. Seems that the understanding of ‘species’ is not clear in each of these cases.

“Assuming the observed rate of mutation we should see MORE changes than we see over six to seven million years of separate reproduction. Do you understand why we don’t see even MORE change?”

Actually, given the observed rate of mutation, we cannot explain how one species becomes another in the time period that exists. I just explained the numbers to you and why they don’t work.

“How can a species be “immutable” when mutations are the inevitable consequence of reproduction? What mechanism is keeping them “immutable” in the face of an inherent and inescapable mutation rate?”

The gulf is just too large to be beat through random mutations over time.


53 posted on 08/01/2011 10:21:50 AM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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To: BenKenobi
The understanding of species is such that in an actual geographic “ring” we can name variety A, B, C, D, E, F, and G such that A can interbreed with B and G but not C, D, E or F. B can interbreed with variety A and C but not D, E, or F; etc, etc. It is only your understanding that is lacking.

Your explanation of the numbers was ridiculous and showed only that you don't understand the subject. The observed mutation rate is more than enough to explain a 2% genetic difference over some six to seven million years given a 20 year generation time. That time period DOES exist. It is only a fantasy by those who wish to ignore all evidence that such a time frame doesn't exist.

What gulf? Some undefined “gulf” (of 2% genetic DNA difference) is going to keep species “immutable” when mutation is inevitable? That isn't a mechanism.

Once again I find myself in the position of explaining to you that using a word is not providing a mechanism.

Would you like to try again to describe a mechanism that is going to keep a species “immutable” in the face of INEVITABLE mutations?

54 posted on 08/01/2011 11:00:22 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: BenKenobi

It has been observed that the single loci nucleotide mutation rate per generation in humans is around 1 * 10^-6.

That means a 0.0001% change in DNA per generation.

Assuming a six million year separation and a 20 year generation time, a 1% change in DNA from that common ancestor accumulating in each branch such that they are some 2% different after six million years is more than accounted for.

Thus, to use the language of science....

The observed mutation rate in humans is both necessary and (more than) sufficient to explain a 2% genetic divergence between humans and chimpanzees over six million years.


55 posted on 08/01/2011 11:11:10 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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