Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Cleburne's letter shows that slavery was a secondary concern for many who fought for the Confederacy. The fact that it was rejected shows that for the people in charge of the Confederacy, it was ALL about the defense of slavery.
1 posted on 07/10/2011 1:17:25 PM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: Colonel Kangaroo
Irish born Patrick Cleburne, a brave soldier who overestimated the good sense of his political superiors.


2 posted on 07/10/2011 1:28:38 PM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Colonel Kangaroo
Gen. Patrick R. Cleburne’s proposal to arm slaves in exchange for their freedom.

How was this supposed to work?

If freed, were ex-slaves to be rewarded with guns?
Or, if the Confederacy gives slaves freedom then they owe guns to the Confederacy?

3 posted on 07/10/2011 1:33:15 PM PDT by Rudder (The Main Stream Media is Our Enemy---get used to it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Colonel Kangaroo
Slavery served the rich planters and the politicians in their pockets.The average fighting CSA trooper was fighting for his home and his state against the Yankee barbarian hordes,looting,raping,murdering and burning—to them,they paid an additional cost for slavery because of the thousands of blacks everywhere who were telling the Bluebelly invaders everything they wanted to know about Confederate numbers,movements,lines of supply and little known routes the Union Armies could use for flanking.
That's how Grant took Vicksburg.
4 posted on 07/10/2011 1:36:38 PM PDT by Happy Rain ("Sans Sarah-Bachmann's The One.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Colonel Kangaroo
The fact that it was rejected shows that for the people in charge of the Confederacy, it was ALL about the defense of slavery.

One only needs to read the statements of secession by the various States to know this. Yes, for the average Joe there were lot of reasons, but it was the fundamental political reason.

6 posted on 07/10/2011 1:50:22 PM PDT by mnehring
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Colonel Kangaroo; Brices Crossroads
Yep, Cleburne was ahead of his time. And because of his proposal, which horrified Joe Johnston and Jeff Davis, his rise in the Confederate Army of Tennessee abruptly ended.

Instead, when Davis fired Johnston (again) after giving ground to Sherman outside of Atlanta in the summer of 1864, he appointed twice wounded and heavily drugged John Bell Hood as commander of the Army, ultimately leading to the debacles at Franklin (where Cleburne was killed) and Nashville.

8 posted on 07/10/2011 1:58:26 PM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin has crossed the Rubicon!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Colonel Kangaroo

“The fact that it was rejected shows that for the people in charge of the Confederacy, it was ALL about the defense of slavery. “

You’re not a very bright person since you jump to illogical conclusions. You want to say the War of Northern Aggression was about slavery so you jumped to that conclusion. Bias is stupidity.


9 posted on 07/10/2011 2:01:19 PM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Colonel Kangaroo

Interesting.


12 posted on 07/10/2011 2:39:02 PM PDT by Dante3
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Colonel Kangaroo

Strategically speaking, he had a good idea, but a poor application.

The only use for “questionable” troops is in the rear area, not in the front lines. However, because there is such a need for rear area personnel, they can displace more reliable rear area troops who can then go to the front lines. (Even the US did this in WWII).

Likewise, his pitch was wrong. Instead of speaking to the slaves, “fight with us and you will be freed”, it should have been directed at the slaveholders, “we will lease your slaves for our use, and their wages will buy manumission from you”. This is a more traditional technique for slaves to buy their freedom, going back to even the Roman Empire.

The appeal of this approach is that slaveholders had a substantial investment in an adult male slave, around $1000 each (comparable to a million dollars today). The government would have had to essentially seize their assets, then “turn around and give them away”. Not a fair deal at all.

Instead, the government would still take the slaves, but would pay the slaveholder their military wages, until their purchase price.

Slave *rental* in the South at the start of the war was about $30 a month, whereas the pay of a white private was only $11 a month, later going up to $18 a month. Properly speaking, was the government to take male slaves for this purpose, it would have to remit to their slave owner an amount closer to $30.

Thus the bottom line would be that slaves would “only” work for the South for about 2-1/2 years before earning their freedom. Slave owners would get their money back for the eminent domain. And there would be a lot more white troops sent to the front.


23 posted on 07/10/2011 3:19:27 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Colonel Kangaroo
In the book Dixie Victorious there is a short story that deals with General Cleburne's proposal and shows what might have happened if the South had gone ahead with it.

The end result was almost half a million fresh troops for the Confederacy at the time when they needed them the most. Bolstered by these new troops, the Confederacy went on the offensive, driving Sherman out of Georgia and Eastern Tennessee and hammering Grant out of Virginia.

72 posted on 07/12/2011 11:26:03 AM PDT by Stonewall Jackson (Democrats: "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Colonel Kangaroo

Just wait till the Southern “War of Northern Aggression” guys see this.


84 posted on 07/20/2011 7:24:21 PM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson