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Civil War anniversary: Cleburne's proposal to arm, free slaves (for the Confederacy)
Dalton Daily Citizen ^ | July 10, 2011 | Robert Jenkins

Posted on 07/10/2011 1:17:20 PM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo

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Cleburne's letter shows that slavery was a secondary concern for many who fought for the Confederacy. The fact that it was rejected shows that for the people in charge of the Confederacy, it was ALL about the defense of slavery.
1 posted on 07/10/2011 1:17:25 PM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
Irish born Patrick Cleburne, a brave soldier who overestimated the good sense of his political superiors.


2 posted on 07/10/2011 1:28:38 PM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
Gen. Patrick R. Cleburne’s proposal to arm slaves in exchange for their freedom.

How was this supposed to work?

If freed, were ex-slaves to be rewarded with guns?
Or, if the Confederacy gives slaves freedom then they owe guns to the Confederacy?

3 posted on 07/10/2011 1:33:15 PM PDT by Rudder (The Main Stream Media is Our Enemy---get used to it.)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
Slavery served the rich planters and the politicians in their pockets.The average fighting CSA trooper was fighting for his home and his state against the Yankee barbarian hordes,looting,raping,murdering and burning—to them,they paid an additional cost for slavery because of the thousands of blacks everywhere who were telling the Bluebelly invaders everything they wanted to know about Confederate numbers,movements,lines of supply and little known routes the Union Armies could use for flanking.
That's how Grant took Vicksburg.
4 posted on 07/10/2011 1:36:38 PM PDT by Happy Rain ("Sans Sarah-Bachmann's The One.")
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To: Rudder
Cleburne was proposing total emanciaption. From his letter:

We can do this (emancipation) more effectually than the North can now do, for we can give the negro not only his own freedom, but that of his wife and child, and can secure it to him in his old home. To do this, we must immediately make his marriage and parental relations sacred in the eyes of the law and forbid their sale. The past legislation of the South concedes that a large free middle class of negro blood, between the master and slave, must sooner or later destroy the institution. If, then, we touch the institution at all, we would do best to make the most of it, and by emancipating the whole race upon reasonable terms, and within such reasonable time as will prepare both races for the change, secure to ourselves all the advantages, and to our enemies all the disadvantages that can arise, both at home and abroad, from such a sacrifice. Satisfy the negro that if he faithfully adheres to our standard during the war he shall receive his freedom and that of his race. Give him as an earnest of our intentions such immediate immunities as will impress him with our sincerity and be in keeping with his new condition, enroll a portion of his class as soldiers of the Confederacy, and we change the race from a dreaded weakness to a position of strength.

5 posted on 07/10/2011 1:43:52 PM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
The fact that it was rejected shows that for the people in charge of the Confederacy, it was ALL about the defense of slavery.

One only needs to read the statements of secession by the various States to know this. Yes, for the average Joe there were lot of reasons, but it was the fundamental political reason.

6 posted on 07/10/2011 1:50:22 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: Happy Rain
Cleburne wrote:

"As between the loss of independence and the loss of slavery, we assume that every patriot will freely give up the latter — give up the negro slave rather than be a slave himself."

He was wrong in his assumptions about the Richmond gang. The politicians who ran the Confederacy were no patriots.

7 posted on 07/10/2011 1:53:01 PM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Colonel Kangaroo; Brices Crossroads
Yep, Cleburne was ahead of his time. And because of his proposal, which horrified Joe Johnston and Jeff Davis, his rise in the Confederate Army of Tennessee abruptly ended.

Instead, when Davis fired Johnston (again) after giving ground to Sherman outside of Atlanta in the summer of 1864, he appointed twice wounded and heavily drugged John Bell Hood as commander of the Army, ultimately leading to the debacles at Franklin (where Cleburne was killed) and Nashville.

8 posted on 07/10/2011 1:58:26 PM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin has crossed the Rubicon!)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

“The fact that it was rejected shows that for the people in charge of the Confederacy, it was ALL about the defense of slavery. “

You’re not a very bright person since you jump to illogical conclusions. You want to say the War of Northern Aggression was about slavery so you jumped to that conclusion. Bias is stupidity.


9 posted on 07/10/2011 2:01:19 PM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: CodeToad
The Confederate regime proved my point by rejecting Cleburne’s proposal. They would rather have had defeat than gain victory without slavery because the promotion of slavery was all they were in it for. They cared nothing for the non-slaveowning whites.
10 posted on 07/10/2011 2:30:38 PM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

There you go jumping to your own illogical conclusions again and placing the blame on dead people.


11 posted on 07/10/2011 2:37:37 PM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

Interesting.


12 posted on 07/10/2011 2:39:02 PM PDT by Dante3
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To: CodeToad

Ok, then explain to us why they south refused to use a large supply of available manpower to fight?


13 posted on 07/10/2011 2:39:44 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

Not even Lincoln saw the war as slavery. He was for Slavery. In fact, he helped get passed a law in his own home State to prevent free slaves from becoming citizens.

Here is also his own comments about slavery as President.

Lincoln’s inaugural address, 4 March 1861:

“I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.”

“There is much controversy about the delivering up of fugitives from service or labor. The clause I now read is as plainly written in the Constitution as any other of its provisions: ‘No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall in consequence of any law or regulation therein be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due. ‘ It is scarcely questioned that this provision was intended by those who made it for the reclaiming of what we call fugitive slaves; and the intention of the lawgiver is the law.”


14 posted on 07/10/2011 2:41:39 PM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: CodeToad

And if it wasn’t about slavery. Why not free the slaves and seceed? It’d be kinda hard for the north to keep complaining about slavery if they had already been freed.


15 posted on 07/10/2011 2:42:33 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: DesertRhino

“Ok, then explain to us why they south refused to use a large supply of available manpower to fight?”

Why don’t you think a few seconds instead of relying on your bias and give us that answer? Go ahead, we’ll wait. I don’t expect you to think about it, but until you do, you won’t be getting a reply from me. I don’t do someone else’s thinking for them. Lazy and stupid isn’t going to be rewarded.


16 posted on 07/10/2011 2:43:37 PM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: DesertRhino

Why didn’t the North free their own slaves first? They didn’t. They North had slavery.

The public school system has really distorted history and people such as yourself believe it hook, line, and sinker.


17 posted on 07/10/2011 2:45:18 PM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: CodeToad

South Carolina doesn’t agree with you. From their declaration of causes of secession:

“The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.”


18 posted on 07/10/2011 2:49:06 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: CodeToad

WE know the answer. They would lose their property,, after all, they bought those slaves fair and square.


19 posted on 07/10/2011 2:52:57 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: CodeToad

North didn’t have slavery in 1860. Thats a southern fiction.


20 posted on 07/10/2011 2:54:46 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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