Posted on 05/07/2011 9:27:55 PM PDT by tlb
bfl
I agree personal rapture happens the instant we physically die if we believe in Our Lord Jesus Christ.
Didn’t Jehovah’s witnesses say May 11, 1988?The other day I had a paphlet on my door it was a Jehovah witness visit I was not home. They have not gone door to door since the 80’s.
I thought the ‘in’ true Ventura conspiracy theory end date was Dec. 21, 2012?
I'm going shooting that day; I guess that means I'll be going out with a *bang*!
...otherwise, it's back to work on Monday.
Assembly Of Godder’s have surpassed Catholicism in wealth.
They bash Catholics from the pulpit. Just another cult.
I see more so called preachers on TV getting a thousand dollar seed money from callers as the preacher lives in a million dollar home. This is not God.
God didn't determine who would be saved, He just knew, because he knows the future. He apparently interacts with time different than we do. We have free will. It's our choice, not God's. God would rather have all men come to salvation, but many won't.
"and whether they’re good people or evil bastards they’re still not gonna be raptured? Sounds like a pretty crappy system to me.'"
The problem is that we are all evil when compared to a perfect holy God that knows no evil. God doesn't just us by man's standards or by a bell curve of human goodness where if you are closer to Mother Theresa than to Adolf Hitler you're ok.
God judges us by His own standard, which is holy, which is perfect unblemished love. Given that it's no wonder that scripture says repeatedly, that "none are righteous" and that "all have fallen short of the glory of God".
The goal according to scripture is to be "perfect". Scripture says "Be perfect, for I am perfect." "Be holy, for I am holy." Jesus said to the Rich young ruler, "If thou wilt be perfect, ...."
There are two ways to be perfect. Never ever sin. Or be forgiven. There is only one way to be forgiven, and that's through Jesus.
"I even asked God about it and he didn’t answer because he’s not real."
When you really want to do what is right....when you really want to find God with all your heart, He WILL answer you.
You wouldn’t believe how many atheists I have met that some how see the light when they venture near a near death experience. All souls see the light,the truth at death.If they still deny what is in front of them they crawl into darkness.The ones that truly believe before they are shown PROOF never see the darkness to deny.
I have a glimmer of hope for Christopher Hitchens I read in Rapture Ready last week
http://www.raptureready.com/nm/351.html
Christopher Hitchens is a well-known atheist who is dying from esophageal cancer. He is now at the point at which he can no longer speak. Before cancer stole his voice, he said his about his pending death, "You're at a party and you're tapped on the shoulder and told you have to leave. The party is still going on but it's going on without you."
Who is tapping him on the shoulder?
Bummer.
The upside is that since it will happen on 0Bamba's watch, he'll get the blame...
Nah, he’ll probably continue to blame Bush.
Buuuuuuuuush!
Agreed. That'd be something where I would NOT mind being wrong. Today would be just fine by me.
Here we go again (excerpted from #241 above)
"How odd to think that Christians who believe that the Church is composed of “Jew and Greek” alike (Romans 10:12) are sometimes suspected of anti-Semitism by those who believe that in the future, earthly millennium the Jews will be rewarded with earth while pre-Rapture Christians will achieve heaven, the grand prize.
"Instead of being incarnational, history becomes fatalistic; instead of being sacramental, the material realm is cursed, even evil.
"This dualism is both startling and familiar, neo-Gnostic and Manichaean.
While fighting against the “New Age” movement and its dualistic errors, dispensationalists unwittingly embrace a similar error, pitting the spiritual against the physical and the heavenly against the earthly, as though they were never ___reconciled in the person of Jesus Christ___.
The 70th week, or last 7-year period, transpired around the crucifixion of Jesus (ending around the time of Paul’s conversion), giving the Jews time to accept him as Messiah (during which the punishment for this rejection was determined). The war on the Jews from 66-73 AD (which some preterists argue is the 70th week, and may have allowed a 40 year gap, programmatic of the Exodus, for Jesus to still be accepted, between 30-70) need not be part of Daniel’s 70 and indeed likely is not
You allow a 40 year gap, my gap is more like 2000 years.
"Today they are no good"????
Your terminology, "no good", is pretty interesting.
What do you call the "Greeks" (gentiles) who fail to acceot Christ, "no good"????
Is, or is not the Bride of Christ - the Church - RIGHT NOW composed of “Jew and Greek” alike (Romans 10:12)?
You continued: "So with replacement theology, which came a bit later...."
"Replacement Theology" is a derogatory term made up by dispensationalists used to label anyone who believes in Covenant (of grace & faith) Theology.
Outside of the dispensationalist bibles (Ryrie/Scofield) you said you prefer to read because you said you are a "literalist", you will find no others pushing the false "replacement theology" accusation onto its readers.
Covenant (of grace and faith) theologians deny that God has abandoned his promises to Israel, but see the fulfillment of the promises to Israel in the person and the work of the Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth, who established the church in organic continuity with Israel, not a separate replacement entity.
The Abrahamic covenant is
1.Exclusive: It is only for Abraham and his (spiritual) descendants.Genesis 17:7
2.Everlasting: It is not replaced by any later covenant. Genesis 17:7
3.Accepted by faith, not works: "Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness. "Genesis 15:6
4.The external sign of entering into the Abrahamic covenant was circumcision. Genesis 17:10, but is has to be matched by an internal change, the circumcision of the heart. Jeremiah 4:4
5.According to Paul, since the Abrahamic covenant is eternal, the followers of Christ are "children of Abraham" and therefore part of this covenant through faith. "Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham." Galatians 3:7
6.Paul makes it clear that baptism is the external sign of faith in Christ ("...you were baptized into Christ..."), and that through faith in Christ the believer is part of the Abrahamic covenant ("Abraham's seed"). This provides the basis for the doctrine that baptism is the New Testament sign of God's covenant with Abraham.
Galatians 3:26: "So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."
The New Covenant (of grace and faith) is
anticipated with the hopes of the Davidic messiah, and most explicitly predicted by the prophet Jeremiah (Jer. 31:34). At the Last Supper, Jesus alludes to this prophecy, as well as to prophecies such as Isaiah 49:8, when he says that the cup of the Passover meal is "the New Covenant in [his] blood."
This use of the Old Testament typology is developed further in the Epistle to the Hebrews (see especially chs. 7-10). Jesus is the last Adam and Israel's hope and consolation: he is the fulfillment of the law and the prophets (Matthew 5:17-18). He is the prophet greater than Jonah (Matt 12:41), and the Son over the house where Moses was a servant (Hebrews 3:5-6), leading his people to the heavenly promised land. He is the high priest greater than Aaron, offering up himself as the perfect sacrifice once for all (Hebrews 9:12, 26). He is the king greater than Solomon (Matthew 12:42), ruling forever on David's throne (Luke 1:32). The term "New Testament" comes from the Latin translation of the Greek New Covenant and is most often used for the collection of books in the Bible, can also refer to the New Covenant as a theological concept.
As an aside, there's an interesting read here:Olive Tree Theology
You continued:"..., we end up with what Martin Luther, who I BTW admire for many non Jewish issues, thought about the Jews and eventually Adolf Hitler,"
Is this worse than when we find dispensationalists anathematizing other Christians -- ie: the Catholic Church by equating it with "Babylon","The Great Whore", and other equally derogatory terminology?
This sort of thing is not new as the Apostles themselves have been falsely accused of "bashing Jews":
".... In the linked article above on Peter and Paul, we explained the "why" of Paul's claim that the distinction between Jew and Gentile has been erased. Our commentator blames Paul for this being at the root of so-called "replacement theology" as well as "all of Christian anti-Semitism that has been perpetrated against Jewish people throughout history" -- never mind that Matthew and John have been likewise accused of this by the equally contriving seeking to place blame. It remains that Paul gives us "supplemental theology" and not replacement theology, and if our commentator wants to blame Paul for how his words have been misused, then I will introduce him to some Skeptics who will cause him to abandon the words of Jesus as well. ..."
“I” allow a 40 year gap????
I agree, poor choice of words only God is good. I was sort of projecting asking is this how preterists judgmentally think about Jews because they failed in 73 AD ? Things can be good but if we call people good we are judging them as things. Also, we get into the good people bad people mode which is judgmental. We are all poor miserable sinners, beggars for grace in need of a savior. We are all the same.
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