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Posted on 05/01/2011 10:49:54 AM PDT by Signalman
Take care of your transmission Oil-change shops push fluid changes that aren't needed May 1, 2007
BY MARK PHELAN FREE PRESS COLUMNIST The $14.99 oil change Linda Good wanted for her 2001 Dodge Voyager ended up costing her more than $100 and buying her a new set of worries. A Madison Heights oil-change shop sold her a transmission fluid change that is almost never necessary, experts say.
"For customers, it's basically throwing your money away," said Daniel Black, Chrysler senior manager of automatic transmission engineering. Despite that, many service stations -- including leading national chains -- offer the procedure. There's no telling how many people pay for it every day. After the oil change, the service attendant said the Voyager's automatic transmission fluid looked dirty and should be changed. Good, who relies on the minivan for her housecleaning, Avon sales and home caregiver businesses, took his advice. The rough, clunky shifts began before she got to the first traffic light. Good cleans my house and knows I drive cars for a living, so she called and asked me how much trouble she was in. Potentially plenty, and it could happen to you. "We don't recommend a" transmission fluid "change in the life of the vehicle," Black said. "The risks are leaks, putting the wrong fluid in, over-filling or under-filling." A bungled fluid change can destroy an automatic transmission or void the manufacturer's warranty on the delicate and expensive component. "As a general rule of thumb, newer transmission designs are sealed for life," said Tim Miskotten, who leads North American business for ZF AG, the German company that is the world's largest independent transmission maker. ZF supplies gearboxes to Ford, Audi, BMW Jaguar and other leading automakers. "You don't need to change the fluid in the normal life of a vehicle," Miskotten said.
Chrysler makes its own transmissions, and its minivans routinely cover 150,000 miles in service as Las Vegas taxis without a transmission fluid change, Black said. "They're our toughest customers," because of constant stop-and-go driving and 24-hour-a-day operation in the blazing desert heat, he said. Black wouldn't diagnose Good's vehicle over the phone, but he said rough shifting after a fluid change could be caused by a refill with the wrong fluid. While few vehicles ever need their transmission fluid changed, even national auto service chains like Jiffy Lube offer the service as routine maintenance. On the rare occasions the fluid actually should be changed, it should be done only by a technician who's certified to work on automatic transmissions and has access to specialized tools and the exact fluid the manufacturer specifies, ZF's Miskotten said.
"You can't just go to the service station and pick up a quart," he said. Each transmission requires fluid produced precisely to formula, he said. "You absolutely have to have the fluid that's specified. It's no longer the case where" an oil shop "says 'We have ATF.' " Using the wrong fluid can lead to rough shifts and noisy operation, he said.
"The correct fluid is most important for shift quality," Black said. It's also vital to fill the transmission to precisely the right level, both experts said. Transmission fluid levels are much more exacting than engine oil, where you can miss the sweet spot by a pint or more with no consequences. "If a vehicle is under-filled and operated in cold weather, you could have a transmission failure," Black said.
Even transmission specialists don't do fluid changes very frequently, said Barry Bryan, owner of American Transmission in Troy. "I check the owner's manual," Bryan said. "If the manufacturer says the fluid never needs to be changed, I agree." Changing the transmission fluid doesn't help if there's already damage, said Bryan, who has owned his station since 1985 and has 40 years' experience working on transmissions. "A problem in the fluid is a sign of other trouble."
After Good had problems with the minivan, she went back to the shop, where she was told she needed more fluid and told if she had more questions to go to a nearby shop under the same ownership. At the second shop she was told to go to a transmission specialist. Mo Dia, who owns Major Oil, where Good had her van serviced, said he recommends a change when fluid is the wrong color or has a burnt smell, adding that the shop does not change fluid if the owner's manual says it is not necessary.
"Does that mean it was a mistake if somebody changed the fluid in a Voyager where Chrysler says it's not necessary?" I asked. "If the vehicle is over 100,000 miles, you don't go by the owner's manual," Dia said. Chrysler said the owner's manual advice still applies after 100,000 miles. Dia initially said he kept every type of transmission fluid in stock. Asked about ATF +4, the fluid Chrysler specifies for the 2001 Voyager, he said, "We have an additive, Smart Blend, to convert regular automatic transmission fluid to ATF +4." "We haven't tested that additive," Chrysler spokeswoman Heather May said. "It's not something we'd recommend." Ten days after the fluid change, Good's Voyager still has rough shifts, but she's comforted knowing that it could be much worse.
"I thought my transmission was going," she said. "That would be a big expense."
I don't think I believe this. Engines consume oil. I would assume they consume XMSN fluid also.
I own 2 high mileage cars. I have definitely noticed a "lag" in the auto XMSN even when the oil has been changed (i use synthetic).
Need more proof than what some German with an agenda provides.
Jiffy Lube had to buy me a new transmission, because their idiots put motor oil into my transmission, by mistake!
Well, I hope it was a mistake, since it requires a funnel to get the spout from the oil hose into the transmission, the nozzle is too big.
It might have been my Republican bumper stickers?
Lots of work release prisoners work at these joints in my area!
Yeah and they consider life of the vehicle 115K miles.
Never-the-less, sealing them up is probably better than having one of these QuickLube outfits bungle the job.
If you want your transmission to last, change the fluid and filter every 30K miles of normal use. Go to a specialty transmission shop if you have to and make sure before hand that you have read the manufacturers TSB's to verify the correct type fluid to use.
Yeah right. An additive. What a scam. The only car I know of that requires transmission fluid changes on a regular basis are the Northstar Cadillacs in the 2000's year range. I think it is every 30000 miles.
Don't ever, never take your car to jiffy lube or any of those places.
When ya drain the oil, leave the drain plug out for 15 or 20 minutes. I leave my out for 2 hours. You have to allow all the dirty oil to drain out that is clinging to all the internal engine parts..
If ya don't do this, your putting new oil in with old nasty dirty oil.
If ya like your vehicle, and want it to last, do this.
The world is in chaos and we are worried about transmission fluid?
Factory service recommendation is to change the transmission fluid every 30K miles.
I’ve got a 2003 Jag, purchased new in 2002, that just passed 104K miles. The tranny is sealed (Jag says do not change the fluid) and uses synthetic ATF. It shifts as smoothly today as it did when I first bought it. I tend to believe that it’s better not to mess with the tranny fluid...with a few exceptions.
If you frequently tow a trailer (that puts a lot of strain on the transmission) or if you drive for an extended period in a hot climate (Phoenix from June-August for example). In those cases, I would change the fluid every 30K-60K miles.
My 2005 GMC truck lasted 108K miles before the 4 speed auto tranny became a 2 speed powerglide.
Had failed to change the fluid at 75k and the transmission crapped out at 108K.
Now I’m driving a Ford, no guv’ment money so that’s good news!
Right you are about that! My late dad always let the oil drip out of the engine for at least 2-3 hours before adding new oil to the engine. That is how you do the job right!
That being said I new a fellow who worked at a Jiffy Lube in New Jersey who put Transmission fluid in a car radiator his first(and last) day on the job!
If you want your transmission to last as long as your engine - i.e., past 120,000 miles for 4 cyl., 160,000 for 6 cyl. and 240,000 for 8 cyl. then the following rules of thumb are a good guide:
1. For non-filtered transmissions - typically Hondas - whether regular or synthetic (typically regular) - do a complete fluid change every 15,000 miles or as needed.
Hondas are pretty easy - most can be done at home. It’s just like an oil pan - drain - and refill.
2. For filtered transmissions - sealed or non-sealed - whether regular or synthetic (typically synthetic or blend) - do a partial fluid change every 30,000 miles or as needed.
DO NOT DO COMPLETE FLUID CHANGES ON FILTERED TRANSMISSIONS THAT SEE NORMAL USE. THAT CAN HARM THE TRANSMISSION. PULL OUT THE MANUAL FOR SUCH CARS AND IT’LL TELL YOU EXACTLY THAT.
One of the early mistakes made at “Jiffy Lube” like centers early on was the “complete fluid flush” service that was offered on ALL TRANSMISSIONS. A lot of these centers got hit with suits early on for damage to transmissions that required partial fluid changes. They’ve wised up nowadays...
=8-)
Unless you regularly tow a trailer or something, you shouldn’t need to change your transmission fluid more than every 60K to 100K miles. It is important to use the correct fluid, of course.
Interesting that they did mention filter changes. I don’t know what ‘sealed up’ means either...do they literally not have a pan on the vehicle?
I’ve noticed my newer vehicles have a magnet in the pan...usually covered with small bits of metal. I wipe the shavings off the magnet, change the filter, add back the amount of fluid lost when I dropped the pan, make the sign of the cross, and go on with life. I figure changing the filter often enough will change out enough fluid over time.
I think the lesson learned here is that the quick-lube places usually use very low quality fluids....they added an additive to make it AT-4? If that worked, you’d be able to buy the same additive off the shelf.
Many of my newer cars require fairly specialized oils...semisynthetics, in some strange weights, like 5-20. I would be terrified to go to a quick-lube place, since that magic hose that dispenses the oil is probably just 10-30.
If you have a newer car, I think the options are increasingly becoming DIY or dealer...but I do have little trust for the independent lube places.
By all means, feel free to ignore the transmissions in your vehicle, and instead type on the Internet.
No problem.
I remember reading in my Chrysler owner’s manual years ago that the transmission (or transfer case?) fluid had a colorant that faded away gradually. Repair shops did not like to hear that, said it was news to them, that my fluid was “dirty”.
As for Jiffy Lube, my last visit there a decade ago had them tell me a throttle plate cleaning at $245 was part of my vehicle’s scheduled maintenance. It was not.
It’s been Walmart for me ever since, and I’ve saved hundreds of dollars on oil changes, filters, batteries, etc.
Appreciate the input. I drive mainly in hot, humid environments (east coast, Baltimordor, DC, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Delaware). I drive a Turbo also. That may have something to do with this.
Can’t afford a Jag ;-).
Appreciate the input. I drive mainly in hot, humid environments (east coast, Baltimordor, DC, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Delaware). I drive a Turbo also. That may have something to do with this.
Can’t afford a Jag ;-).
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