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To: Mr Rogers
Vattel was writing about international law, and admits it doesn’t apply to how England handled things.

This is a bunch of crap. Vattel pointed out that England chooses to naturalize at birth the children of aliens. That's fine, but those people are still naturalized. They are not natural, indigenous, or natural born. You have been corrected on this point before yet you keep posting this false information. Please stop posting lies to FreeRepublic.com.

90 posted on 04/30/2011 5:13:49 PM PDT by Plummz (pro-constitution, anti-corruption)
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To: Plummz

“Vattel pointed out that England chooses to naturalize at birth the children of aliens.”

That was Vattel’s term for it, writing from a continental perspective. That is NOT how the English saw it. They were not naturalizing the baby, but the baby had a natural obligation to the king.

Vattel isn’t God. He screwed things up. He had not gone to England, and had no particular expertise on English law.

As the US Supreme Court put it:

“II. The fundamental principle of the common law with regard to English nationality was birth within the allegiance, also called “ligealty,” “obedience,” “faith,” or “power” of the King. The principle embraced all persons born within the King’s allegiance and subject to his protection. Such allegiance and protection were mutual — as expressed in the maxim protectio trahit subjectionem, et subjectio protectionem — and were not restricted to natural-born subjects and naturalized subjects, or to those who had taken an oath of allegiance, but were predicable of aliens in amity so long as they were within the kingdom. Children, born in England, of such aliens were therefore natural-born subjects. But the children, born within the realm, of foreign ambassadors, or the children of alien enemies, born during and within their hostile occupation of part of the King’s dominions, were not natural-born subjects because not born within the allegiance, the obedience, or the power, or, as would be said at this day, within the jurisdiction, of the King...

...It thus clearly appears that, by the law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country and continuing to the present day, aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the Crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, the jurisdiction of the English Sovereign, and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign State or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born.

III. The same rule was in force in all the English Colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the Constitution as originally established.”

I don’t know how the US Supreme Court could have made it any clearer.


92 posted on 04/30/2011 5:30:23 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Poor history is better than good fiction, and anything with lots of horses is better still)
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