[Jim Noble]

Not defined by the Constitution or the US Code, awaiting case law, don’t hold your breath.

[musicman]

Help FR Fight Marxist Fiction
By Donating To FR Here!!

[publius1]

constitution speaks to presidential requirement ob bring a “natural born” citizen = “ob bring” is “of being.”. iPad spell Check attacks again!!!

[ransacked]

Born in the United States to parents both in this Country legally, lawfully, and citizens of.

[the invisib1e hand]

Natural born: congenital or native i.e. “natural born fool.”

[umgud]

So if you have a C-Section, you’re out?

[reasonisfaith]

Not the same. It was established years ago on this forum, when Donald Trump was praising Obama for being such a political success.

[mamelukesabre]

Depends what time frame you are talking about. The supreme courts have dumbed down the definition over the last 200+ years. By most recent interpretation, if obama was born in hawaii, he is natural born. By the interpretation in use at the time of obama’s birth, he would not have qualified as a natural born citizen even if he was born in hawaii.

[iowamark]

Is "natural born" the same as "native born"???

Neither of those terms is defined by the Constitution or the law. Perhaps someday Congress will attempt it.

[Always Right]

Whatever Obama is, isn’t.

[ScubieNuc]

Here is a link with good information. http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2009/08/law-of-nations-and-not-english-common.html

In short, a natural born citizen is one born in a country to parents (notice the ‘s’, as in two citizen parents) who are citizens of the same country. So NO, Obama is not a “natural born citizen”.

The problem is that the vetting process for presidential candidates is basically non-existant. People just assume there is a through review, but there is not.

[PieterCasparzen]

See posts by Elle Bee, Spaulding, others; search for keyword naturalborncitizen.

Copy of a post of mine follows:

Hence, the Chester Arthur example is not and cannot be treated as any precedent since the nation was not aware of the truth about his father’s and mother’s non-U.S. citizenship status at the time of his birth.

Interesting, since it appears that the question of applicability of precedent would become the focus when the Natural-born issue is finally acknowledged for a week in the media, and I believe at some point it will be. From a practical standpoint, if this issue makes reelection probabilities dire enough, centrist Dems would attempt to primary nobama out, which would perhaps be the smartest thing for them to do, as the D party could move to the center and the R would have to move more solidly to the right. Except who would the D's select (besides the thoroughly worn-out clintonistas) ? Well, whatever, my real points for comment follow.

Well, I found a reference to a SCOTUS case from 1874 that referred to "natural-born". The link to Justia.com follows the relevant snippet from this women's suffrage case, "MINOR V. HAPPERSETT, 88 U. S. 162 (1874)",

"The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case, it is not necessary to solve these doubts."

The text I cite above appears to be quite telling in the logic of the actors of today.

If this ruling were the latest precedential ruling, it would make sense then, that the man elected in 2008 and his true backers, whoever they may be, are exerting such tremendous effort to establish the newly-minted State of Hawaii as his birthplace. That birthplace enables him to claim "natural-born" based on being in the second classification of children in the cited reference, those born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. Absent that birthplace fact, he would fail the meaning of "natural-born" cited within this opinion on both counts, as the father he claims is acknowledged to not be a U.S. citizen.

Please comment; I very much look forward to more case research and opinions regarding the precedents of this case. Please keep them research-oriented; are there any legal scholars or "lay" people out there who can do some digging ?

If this holds water, then perhaps this is the case that needs to be presented, "Occam" style.

I am not sure of Mr. Trump's true aims, so I try to write in an unbiased tone regarding his efforts which, so far, appear to have certain commonality with most Americans, however I caution that his overall vision may be less than ideal, as indicated by some simplistic protectionist bandages that he has advocated. In his defense, I would like to remind that the amount of his assets affected by slumping Real Estate may be motivating his desire to see the nation restored.

[livius]

It’s not defined, but we have to remember that the Founders were writing not only to set up the laws for the future, but to handle their own situations, since obviously the country didn’t even exist at the time of their births. Hence the specification that persons had to be citizens at the time of adoption of the new Constitution, and also the residence requirement of 14 years.

Personally, I think they probably just meant “born here;” “natural” is used in that sense in other languages, such as Spanish. Natural and native are actually both descended from the Latin word nasci, meaning to be born, and I think people are creating an artificial distinction when they try to oppose them.

[sourcery]

References:

• Natural Born Citizen
• 4 Supreme Court Cases define "natural born citizen"
• The Bottom Line on Natural Born Citizen

[train]

Common sense shows that our Nation, the greatest country on the planet, would NOT want someone in charge who at a minimum has a dual-allegiance. In other words, when Barry was a young boy in school, he was conversing in a non-English language about Indonesia and the Muslim faith which his adoptive father practiced. He wasn't learning about the 50 states as a normal kid in would learn. He grew up having an allegiance, a tugging of his heart for Indonesia and Islam. Not that he doesn't care about the United States, it's just that the USA isn't his only allegiance.

Because our Founder didn't want someone to gain control over our great young nation, they insisted that anyone who was President must be natural born. They can never, at any time hold any type of allegiance to another country as it would result in them not putting our nation's best interest at heart. The President orders men and women into military action. If they have a slight leaning to another country, they would be more likely to disregard our Nation's best interest in every arena.

Barry is not eligible for the office for SEVERAL reasons. FRAUD at the very least being Number 1. Dual Citizenship being Number 2. Not being Natural Born.... trumps all other reasons. It's obvious he doesn't love our country. In fact he HATES most Natural Born Americans. And he's jealous of us.

[bushpilot1]

!926 Bouvier's Law Dictionary

[Bean Counter]

I’m not an attorney, but I’m willing to bet you a burger that an extensive written answer to that very question has been required from many a Law Student since the Constitution was written....

[bushpilot1]

The word natural comes from Kind and Gecynde. Kind and natural have the same meaning.

When the Founders used the term natural born citizen they placed this type of citizen into a Kind.

Kind comes from the old Anglo Saxon word gecynde.

It is my contention natural born Citizens are the descendants created after the ratification.

It has to be determined if the 14th Amendment can alter the Kind or natural born citizen.

Here is a list of books in my google library explaining Kind and Natural

http://books.google.com/books?uid=-8156330887158583004&hl=en&q=Kind++natural+gecynde

[hoosiermama]

Input needed to clarify NBC here.

[bushpilot1]

there is a letter by ben franklin..I posted several months ago in a NBC thread..not sure where it is..

He discusses Kind and Natural citizens are for the United States. Once the letter is read you will have a better understanding the meaning of natural born citizen as intended by the Founders.

I will try to look for it...and post it here..