Posted on 03/11/2011 7:51:18 PM PST by Daffynition
Contracts between private individuals are DIFFERENT than arrangements between individuals and governments.
BTW, it is common in much of the world for merchants to hire people to kidnap potential customers and drag them to their tents for trade. We don't do that.
In Walmart, I have found if I make eye contact and smile and say goodbye or have a nice day to the receipt person, they respond in kind and leave me alone. Also, if I have unbagged merchandise, I push the cart or carry it with receipt showing. They do not stop me.
On the other hand, I won’t shop someplace where I am treated like a potential thief (salesperson following you around). I was at Macy’s with a gift card and had a tough time deciding since the item I really wanted wasn’t there, so I spent a lot of time looking at everything in housewares. The sales lady kept following me around and asking if I needed help. It was very annoying.
She probably worked on commission. Often that happens in places where clerks *follow* you...typically they’ll tell you their name...and ssy something like, “I’ll be right there, if you need help.”;)
I worked at Wal-Mart years ago and even then we had people who would buy something, come back, pick up something else, and then try to walk out without paying and using the old receipt.
And can't a customer give away his receipt to someone else even before he reaches the front door?
And can't a customer sell his receipt to someone else even before he reaches the front door?
What right does Walmart have to expect a customer to assist Walmart in preventing shoplifting by others?
He said they'd come in wearing rain coats and there'd be someone underneath the other guy's legs reaching up to snag CDs.
There's no end to what thieves will try.
One day I was looking at a printer on sale in a box down on the lowest shelf at a Wal-Mart. Looking back at me was a camera pickup! There are thieves who simply can't imagine that Wal-Mart has thought of their tricks.
What right does the customer have to assume that Walmart will store his car for him while he's in the store?
I don’t at all mind if a clerk stops me when they suspect me of theft...if they’ve seen me conceal something in my jacket and watched me leave the store without paying for it...any more than I would mind my car being searched with probable cause or my person being stopped in a Terry stop situation.
However checking receipts is not like that. The act of walking out of a store holding a Wal-Mart bag in my hand is NOT probable cause that I am stealing something...and they have no right to detain me.
Thanks for the case law, it was interesting!
Ed
bookmarking
WalMart policy cannot trump legislation and natural law.
That’s where your whole thing kinda breaks down on you.
The standard for suspicion is:
1. See the article taken.
2. See it concealed.
3. See them leave the store without paying.
4. Never lose sight of the perp.
Anything other than that = guaranteed win in a lawsuit. And totally illegal.
That tacit agreement thing works both ways. I'm walking in with their tacit agreement that the rules they set forth won't violate my rights and that the rights of one of us end where the rights of the other begin. The real issue here is a conflict of rights and lack of a clear definition of where the one’s rights end and the other’s rights begin. By the way, these rules set forth by Wal Mart that we are supposed to abide by, where are they set forth? I don't recall ever seeing a sign or anything setting forth that I have to show my receipt on exiting. What are the other rules set forth somewhere that we have to abide by but don't know what are?
“If not they have the right to refuse you service.”
1. I've read that before. In this situation, I suppose they could ask someone to leave if they won't show their receipt. (I'm just pointing out the contradiction in the situation.)
2. Whether or not they actually have any kind of right to refuse service for breaking their rules would depend on what their rules are.
“When you purchased the TV, you again agreed to a set of rules set forth by Wal Mart called a purchase agreement. It includes the return policy etc.”
I don't recall ever seeing a purchase agreement at Wal Mart for me to agree to, or not. The return policy may be set forth on the receipt and signs in the service area, but I don't really have a choice about agreeing to it. They accept the return or the don't, their choice. Rules about check cashing are set forth at the registers. Rules about store hours and so on are set forth at the door. Rules about purchasing alcohol, tobacco, firearms, ammunition and so forth are set forth in the appropriate departments. I've never seen a rule set forth about showing a receipt at the door. Again, where is this rule set forth and what are the other rules I don't know about, which apparently are set forth someplace I don't know about?
“They are a private business, and therefore can set whatever rules they want to conduct business.”
No they can't. They are limited by law and the rights of others.
“You as a free American can choose to, or not to obey those rules. If you choose not to then you can choose to shop at another store whose rules you do agree with.”
Which stores, aside from the membership retailers, set forth all their rules where I can find them so I can know if I agree with them or not?
“You do not have any “right” to shop at Wal Mart, and you do not have the “right” to break Wal Mart’s rules, immediately after you entered an agreement to abide by those rules when you made your purchase.”
As a member of the public and absent anything else, I and my neighbors have a right to shop at Wal Mart due to the tacit agreement Wal Mart entered into when it opened a store to members of the public in my community and agreed to serve the community.
“If you don’t like Wal Mart’s door policy, shop elsewhere.”
That's an option in Lexington, perhaps less so in Jackson and Hazard.
“Let’s scrape away all of the BS here.”
Are you willing to start with post 304? (Sorry sort of, but I couldn't resist.)
Virginia's statutes are all on the side of the merchant ~ so why screw around with their employees.
Natural law is also on the side of Wal-Mart.
pflr
Even a lowly assistant manager of Walmart understands that they are way off base in demanding that a bill of sale be presented to them in order for a citizen to maintain their liberty and freedom. Your rights do not end at their property line. We got rid of that fifedom system when we cast off the King. As our founders said “Exercise your rights or loose them”.
The man had the Constitution and the law of Virginia on his side.
Valid only if you have at least Six figures in liquid assets, or a deposit account above $50,000.
Go get a job somewhere in Va. And attempt to stop me at the door when I refuse to show my receipt.
Name the place and time. I'll come.
I think we have plenty of laws available to beat you down ~ even before you leave home.
We call people like you Communists.
More capitalist than you by far. Gar-un-teed.
You’re just wrong on this issue. And I was giving you an opportunity to stand up and prove you weren’t.
You cannot detain, touch, stop, harass someone for not showing a receipt. Period.
You cannot exercise shopkeeper’s privilege until the prerequisites I’ve listed are met. Well, you CAN.... but it’s gonna cost you.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.