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To: jamese777
Locke temp_local obedience B

Locke temp_local obedience C

Dred Scott decision: Thus Vattel, in the preliminary chapter to his Treatise on the Law of Nations, says: ...The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. Gee, even the pro-slavery justices agreed that Vattel's law of nations definition was root definition of US citizenship & birth in a nation & subject to its laws does not constitute automatic citizenship, one must be born to citizen parent(S), no foreign allegiances allowed.

553 posted on 11/13/2010 6:21:33 PM PST by patlin (Ignorance is Bliss for those who choose to wear rose colored glasses)
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To: patlin

Dred Scott decision: Thus Vattel, in the preliminary chapter to his Treatise on the Law of Nations, says: ...The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. Gee, even the pro-slavery justices agreed that Vattel’s law of nations definition was root definition of US citizenship & birth in a nation & subject to its laws does not constitute automatic citizenship, one must be born to citizen parent(S), no foreign allegiances allowed.


21st Century US law of the land says that a “citizen of the United States at birth” is: (a) “a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;”

Under current law, parents only come into play if a person was NOT physically born inside the United States.

The current four or five originalists on the US Supreme Court (depending on the issue) don’t appear to be interested. They have denied (without comment) hearings to all Obama eligibility appeals to reach them for Certiorari conferences.


557 posted on 11/13/2010 6:50:08 PM PST by jamese777
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To: patlin

“Vattel’s law of nations definition was root definition of US citizenship & birth in a nation & subject to its laws does not constitute automatic citizenship, one must be born to citizen parent(S), no foreign allegiances allowed. “

WRONG! First, the phrase birthers use to justify their claims was - “Les Naturels ou indigènes font ceux qui font nés dans le pays de Parens Citoyens.”

Natives, not ‘natural-born citizens’ and not ‘citizens’. Vattel, like all non-birther types recognized the two ways to be a citizen - via birth or via naturalization. ALL those who were citizens or subjects at birth were “natives” or “natural-born”.

Vattel notes that in England even children of aliens become “NATURAL-BORN subjects”. And well he should, for that was British common law. Here is Blackstone’s classic exposition in 1765 of the legal meaning of the term from the Commentaries on the Laws of England.
William Blackstone, Commentaries 1: 354 361–62
“Natural-born subjects are such as are born within the dominions of the crown of England, that is, within the ligeance, or as it is generally called, the allegiance of the king; and aliens, such as are born out of it…all children, born out of the king’s ligeance [i.e on foreign soil], whose fatherswere natural-born subjects, are now natural-born subjects themselves, to all intents and purposes, without any exception; unless their said fathers were attainted, or banished beyond sea, for high treason; or were then in the service of a prince at enmity with Great Britain.”

Many of the framers of the Constitution were lawyers, and key ones were English trained, based their understanding and language on English Common Law, and the U. S. Supreme court has said that the Constitution is written in the language of English Common Law (Smith v. Alabama):

The interpretation of the Constitution of the United States is necessarily influenced by the fact that its provisions are framed in the language of the English common law, and are to be read in the light of its history. Smith v. Alabama, 124 U.S. 465.

IT IS THIS UNDERSTANDING OF TERMS, COMBINED WITH THE 14TH AMENDMENT, THAT LED TO THE KIM WONG ARK DECISION, that granted birthright citizenship to ALL those born in the USA even those who are born to foreign residents of the US. Vattel’s definitions are obsolete and irrelevent post 14th amendment.


596 posted on 11/14/2010 10:08:38 AM PST by WOSG (OPERATION RESTORE AMERICAN FREEDOM - NOVEMBER, 2010 - DO YOUR PART!)
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