Posted on 10/25/2010 7:28:30 AM PDT by Michael Zak
On this day in 1859, Senator William Seward (R-NY) said:
"The Democratic party is inextricably committed to the designs of the slaveholders... The history of the Democratic Party commits it to the policy of slavery. It has been the Democratic Party, and no other agency, which has carried that policy up to its present alarming culmination... Such is the Democratic Party... The government of the United States, under the conduct of the Democratic Party, has been all that time surrendering one plain and castle after another to slavery."
The more things change...
There is no evidence he wanted it, but Lincoln provided it.
“The garrison had every right to stay at Sumter, so the offer was irrelevant.”
Now that is what I call a non-sequitur of the first order. The garrison was not at Ft. Sumter on orders of the Department of the Army, and their presence was duly rejected by the State of South Carolina.
And next, the offer had nothing to do with “rights” but a peaceful resolution. Surely even you can recognize that.
You are not the first person to use the words "provocative and confrontational", so let's examine their meaning and true relevance to Ft. Sumter.
Provocative is defined as inciting or confronting.
Lincoln's own cabinet opinions: Secretary of State William Seward stated that,
“The attempt to reinforce Fort Sumter will provoke an attack and involve war. The very preparation for such an expedition will precipitate war at that point. I oppose beginning war at that point. I would advise against the expedition to Charleston….I would instruct Major Anderson to retire from Sumter”.
Secretary of War Simon Cameron stated,
“It would be unwise now to make such an attempt” to garrison Ft. Sumter. “The cause of humanity and the highest obligation of the public interest would be best promoted” by abandoning the fort.
Secretary of Navy Gideon Wells said,
“By sending or attempting to send provisions into Ft. Sumter, will not war be precipitated? It may be impossible to escape it under any course of policy that may be pursued, but I am not prepared to advise a course that would provoke hostilities….I do not, therefore, under all circumstances, think it wise to provision Ft. Sumter.”
All of these experienced men of the time as well as the newspapers of New York and Philadelphia knew the truth........why don't you?
Sarcasm does not defeat truth.
“The garrison was running out of provisions and without resupply would have had to surrender within a matter of days.”
A peaceful resolution, not war.
“Davis, Beauregard, and Pickens got the war they wanted.”
There is no evidence to support that.
“Too bad for you they so badly mismanaged it.”
An odd comment to be sure. It has nothing to do with me, but everything for the 650,000 that died shortly thereafter.
Not only odd, but hostile.
The fact that South Carolina and many other states have passed sovereignty bills and there have been no court challenges should put to rest any claims otherwise.
It doesn't. But there was no truth in your statement.
A peaceful resolution, not war.
Forcing a garrison to surrender and taking property that doesn't belong to you is a declaration of war. Peace would have been allowing the status quo to continue.
There is no evidence to support that.
Davis knew what would happen - Toombs warned him of that ahead of time. But Davis knew that only war would bring the rest of the slave states into his confederacy with him. So he chose war, got only half the additional states he thought he'd get, and destroyed the South in the process.
Are they started to deny food?
Had you ever served in any branch of the military then you would have understood that joke.
The food afterthought did not exist until Lincoln’s secret invasion became public.
Quit making up history. Lincoln sent a message to S.C. Governor Picking telling him that he was sending ships to reprovision the Fort. It was not a 'secret invasion' albeit, an invasion was totally justified.
I suppose you would like for a President to just abandon our troops every time an armed mob threatens violence. That is what un Americans always do.
I SAID: A consult of your library will show you that the garrison at Ft. Sumter had been offered free transportation back home
Your retort: “But there was no truth in your statement.’
So, here is your truth and exact proof of the offer of free transportation home:
Brigadier General Beauregard’s Battle Report HEADQUARTERS PROVISIONAL ARMY,
Charleston, S.C., April 27, 1861
SIR: I have the honor to submit the following detailed report...:
“I offered to transport himself (Maj. Anderson) and command to any port in the United States he might elect...”
That is from the OR that you said did not exist.
Your contention was that Davis wanted war. You have no proof of that.
From that same OR entry: "As my aides were about leaving Major Anderson remarked that if we did not batter him to pieces he would be starved out in a few days or words to that effect."
So what was that you were saying about starving them out being only Lincoln propaganda?
Your contention was that Davis wanted war. You have no proof of that.
Bombarding the fort into surrender was not a peaceful act. If Davis did not believe that would lead to war, even after his secretary of state warned him it would, then he truly was a fool.
I did, and unlike you, I don’t feel the need to announce it 24/7 on FR. IF it’s even true, probably the only thing you ever did in your life that was worth a sh$t.
BS, you have made many derogatory comments regarding the army and the marines. Don’t make me post them for all to see.
“Quit making up history.”
The food issue is easy issue to invalidate:
On what date did the Southern command receive word of invasion?
On what date were the foods cut off?
I've no doubt I did, but feel free to post them all just to demonstrate - again - how you file and save everything I say. And then be sure to deny - again - that you're a stalker.
And once you're done, let me know. Having served with pride in the U.S. Navy I'll gladly stand by every derogatory comment I evey made about the doggies and the jarheads.
Campfire Girls don't count. Unless you're a Democrat running for office.
You do realize you don’t have to save things on FR to be able to just go view them, right? I don’t think you have a clue how to use search, PERIOD! The fact that you have an ancient HP computer and can’t even remove that easy as hell spyware you got, tells me all I need to know. If you had decent protection on your computer you would have never gotten it in the first place, dorkstick.
I’ve no doubt I did,
____________________
I’m glad you’ve stopped lying and denying. I will admit since you have been proved to be a bigot and a liar by airing you dirty laundry, you have cleaned up your act with the bigotry and slurs. Good girl, keep up the good work.
Consider it denied. You can say it all you want and it worked for you by calling others that in the past, it won’t work now.
So far as I've been able to find out, Taylor was an Anti-Federalist in the 1780s, an opponent of the new Constitution.
He also wasn't a delegate to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, though Wikipedia gives the impression that he was.
So, unless you have other and better facts, he wasn't really a "ratifier of the Constitution."
John Taylor was one of those people who opposed the Constitution and then pretended that it said and meant what he wanted it to, somebody who lost the battle and pretended that he won, which might be thought a little shabby on his part.
Yeah.
I don’t think you have a clue how to use search, PERIOD!
There's 'search' and then there's pasting a dozen or more quotes from a wide timeframe at a moment's notice. Obviously you've gone to the trouble of gathering dozens, perhaps hundreds or thousands of my quotes over time, carefully cross-referenced so that when the mood strikes you then BAM! You paste them into a reply and send it off, no doubt chortling a bit and mumbling, "That'll show the sumbitch who's boss!" as you do so. Fortunately for the forum members I seem to be the only one you have this odd obsession over.
If you had decent protection on your computer you would have never gotten it in the first place, dorkstick.
Yes, well I will value that bit of wisdom as much as I value all your posts.
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