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To: Walts Ice Pick

John Brown was a troubled and violent man. The Harpers Ferry raid probably did as much to set off the Civil War as Harriet B. Stowe’s book. I think the country would have been much, much better off in the long run without the Civil War. I am as opposed to slavery as anyone, as Abe Lincoln himself. I just think abolition was inevitable in time. The Civil War was a terrible price to pay. If the initiative to end slavery had come from the South, as I believe it would, there was a great deal of abolitionist sentiment in the South, then we might have been spared a couple of generations of racial strife.

Besides, the Civil War fostered an unhealthy self-righteous attitude in the North whose consequences we are living with unto the present day.


42 posted on 10/16/2010 10:53:54 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Great Season Tampa Bay Rays! Now, kindly send Carl Crawford to Boston.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
I am as opposed to slavery as anyone, as Abe Lincoln himself

Lincoln's opposition was borne of expedience in time of war. There are ample historical quotes and cites to verify this as fact.

Barack Obama himself admits that The Emancipation Proclamation was a military document.

43 posted on 10/16/2010 11:01:16 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Unfortunately no initiative was forthcoming from the “leadership” of the south, who instead deliberately set out on their disastrous plan to immortalize the “peculiar institution”.

I’m not sure what “unhealthy self-righteous attitude” exclusive to the north you are referring to - I think that there have been plenty of such attitudes all around.


45 posted on 10/16/2010 11:57:18 AM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
there was a great deal of abolitionist sentiment in the South

If you have evidence of such during the 1850s or 60s, I'd sure like to see it.

I'm rereading Shelby Foote's history of the War. Just read the section about Pat Cleburne calling in 1864 for the enlistment of blacks in the army and a promise of gradual emancipation.

He was one of the very best CSA commanders. He arguably saved the North Georgia army from annhilation on at least two occasions.

His presentation of this idea to his fellow generals was met with "polite silence," as he was very well liked in the army.

Davis and other pols were utterly appalled at the very notion, and Davis took special care to find out whether other officers were infected with this notion and was greatly relieved to find out they were not.

Despite Cleburne's great competence and the CSA's desperate need for such, after this event he was never promoted or given greater responsibility. When Johnston was canned, Hood was promoted over Cleburne and promptly proceeded to nearly destroy his own army.

While it is highly unlikely Cleburne would have been able to defeat Sherman at Atlanta, it is even more unlikely he could have done worse than Hood.

My point is that the very notion of eventually freeing slaves was treated (in 1864!) roughly as if he was proposing the sacrifice of firstborn children to Moloch. That doesn't sound like a lot of support for abolition to me.

82 posted on 10/17/2010 4:33:12 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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