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To: SonOfDarkSkies; Quix
Thank you so much for your questions, dear SonofDarkSkies!

I am still interested--as mentioned previously--to see if I can find any defensible logic as to why and how early Church fathers and great and early Torah scholars dismissed Enoch so passionately. As far as I can tell, they all twist themselves into pretzels to avoid the fallen angel intermingle concept.

I suspect the main reason the Church turned its back on Enoch after using it so long, was that they were getting discouraged because Christ hadn't yet come again.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. - 2 Peter 3:9

The Book of Enoch (Enoch I) is written for the end times much like Revelation. And like Revelation, it contains a blessing for those who will read it.

The blessing of Enoch; with which he blessed the elect and the righteous who would be present on the day of tribulation at (the time of) the removal of all the ungodly ones. And Enoch, the blessed and righteous man of the Lord, took up (his parable) while his eyes were open and he saw, and said "(This is) a holy vision from the heavens which the angels showed me; and I heard from them everything and I understood. I look not for this generation but for the distant one that is coming. I speak about the elect ones and concerning them. (The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, Volume I, 1 Enoch)

Also, since Enoch so obviously refers to Christ, it is no wonder the Rabbis rejected it even though it had been in use for many years.

The Book of Enoch (also known as 1 Enoch) was once cherished by Jews and Christians alike, this book later fell into disfavor with powerful theologians–precisely because of its controversial statements on the nature and deeds of the fallen angels…

The theme of the Book of Enoch dealing with the nature and deeds of the fallen angels so infuriated the later Church fathers that one, Filastrius, actually condemned it openly as heresy (Filastrius, Liber de Haeresibus, no. 108). Nor did the rabbis deign to give credence to the book’s teaching about angels. Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai in the second century A.D. pronounced a curse upon those who believed it (Delitzsch, p. 223).

So the book was denounced, banned, cursed, no doubt burned and shredded–and last but not least, lost (and conveniently forgotten) for a thousand years. But with an uncanny persistence, the Book of Enoch found its way back into circulation two centuries ago.

In 1773, rumors of a surviving copy of the book drew Scottish explorer James Bruce to distant Ethiopia. True to hearsay, the Book of Enoch had been preserved by the Ethiopic church, which put it right alongside the other books of the Bible…

Though it was once believed to be post-Christian (the similarities to Christian terminology and teaching are striking), recent discoveries of copies of the book among the Dead Sea Scrolls found at Qumran prove that the book was in existence before the time of Jesus Christ. But the date of the original writing upon which the second century B.C. Qumran copies were based is shrouded in obscurity. It is, in a word, old…

There is abundant proof that Christ approved of the Book of Enoch. Over a hundred phrases in the New Testament find precedents in the Book of Enoch.

Another remarkable bit of evidence for the early Christians’ acceptance of the Book of Enoch was for many years buried under the King James Bible’s mistranslation of Luke 9:35, describing the transfiguration of Christ: "And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, ‘This is my beloved Son: hear him." Apparently the translator here wished to make this verse agree with a similar verse in Matthew and Mark. But Luke’s verse in the original Greek reads: "This is my Son, the Elect One (from the Greek ho eklelegmenos, lit., "the elect one"): hear him."

The "Elect One" is a most significant term (found fourteen times) in the Book of Enoch. If the book was indeed known to the apostles of Christ, with its abundant descriptions of the Elect One who should "sit upon the throne of glory" and the Elect One who should "dwell in the midst of them," then the great scriptural authenticity is accorded to the Book of Enoch when the "voice out of the cloud" tells the apostles, "This is my Son, the Elect One"–the one promised in the Book of Enoch.

The Book of Jude tells us in vs. 14 that "Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied…" Jude also, in vs. 15, makes a direct reference to the Book of Enoch (2:1), where he writes, "to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly…" …

Many of the early church fathers also supported the Enochian writings. Justin Martyr ascribed all evil to demons whom he alleged to be the offspring of the angels who fell through lust for women (from the Ibid.)–directly referencing the Enochian writings.

Athenagoras, writing in his work called Legatio in about 170 A.D., regards Enoch as a true prophet. He describes the angels which "violated both their own nature and their office." In his writings, he goes into detail about the nature of fallen angels and the cause of their fall, which comes directly from the Enochian writings.

Many other church fathers: Tatian (110-172); Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons (115-185); Clement of Alexandria (150-220); Tertullian (160-230); Origen (186-255); Lactantius (260-330); in addition to: Methodius of Philippi, Minucius Felix, Commodianus, and Ambrose of Milanalso–also approved of and supported the Enochian writings…

One by one the arguments against the Book of Enoch fade away. The day may soon arrive when the final complaints about the Book of Enoch’s lack of historicity and "late date" are also silenced by new evidence of the book’s real antiquity.

Introduction

If you are going to study Enoch, I strongly suggest Charlesworth's Pseudepigrapha because it includes many scholarly insights, footnotes, the other two Books of Enoch and has the latest translation. Often what you find on the internet is New Age and that based on pre-Dead Sea Scroll era translations.

In a nutshell, Enoch I tells us that angels were assigned to earth to watch after the banished Adamic men. Instead, they acted willfully having sex with human women and producing bloodthirsty giants. And more, they taught man all kinds of forbidden knowledge such as war and weapons. All of this further explains Genesis 6.

The angels were seized and chained in darkness until the judgment and God took Enoch to be their advocate. Which he did, but their fate was sealed. The angels' plea was for their offspring. And, as I recall, the bodies of their offspring were destroyed by the flood but their spirits continued on the earth as the "demons."

And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him. - Mark 1:34

And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding. So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine. - Mark 8:29-31

God's Name is I AM.

216 posted on 09/28/2010 8:52:12 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

THANKS ENORMOUSLY. I think that’s better even than your earlier such.

Much appreciated.


219 posted on 09/28/2010 9:01:37 PM PDT by Quix (PAPAL AGENT DESIGNEE: Resident Filth of non-Roman Catholics; RC AGENT DESIGNATED: "INSANE")
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To: Alamo-Girl

Are all the Dead Sea versions/translations of Enoch compromised beyond usefulness?

None are close to your preferred version?


221 posted on 09/28/2010 9:08:16 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: huldah1776; Errant

Occurred to me that you two might find the post and this thread interesting, so ... PING


230 posted on 09/28/2010 9:22:45 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Dems, believing they cannot be deceived, it's nye impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Alamo-Girl
Thank you so much, Alamo-Girl, for your thoughtful response. I also appreciate your recommendation of Charlesworth's Pseudepigrapha. I will order both volumes shortly.

I would also like to ask your opinion of the R.H. Charles translation of I Enoch. That is the translation I have used so far. Do you approve?

263 posted on 09/29/2010 3:34:18 AM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies (Is Obama the Twelfth Imam? Farrakhan thinks he is!)
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To: Alamo-Girl
Alamo-Girl, thanks for your incredible help.

There is still one thing gnawing at me however...and I am certain you know the answer.

Why were the rabbis like Nachmanides, Rashi, and Rashbi (Simeon ben Jochai of the "curse") against Enoch? Was it the mention of The Elect One or the talk of Fallen Angels, etc. or both or even something else?

267 posted on 09/29/2010 4:52:38 AM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies (Is Obama the Twelfth Imam? Farrakhan thinks he is!)
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To: Alamo-Girl; SonOfDarkSkies; Quix
If you are going to study Enoch, I strongly suggest Charlesworth's Pseudepigrapha because it includes many scholarly insights, footnotes, the other two Books of Enoch and has the latest translation. Often what you find on the internet is New Age and that based on pre-Dead Sea Scroll era translations.

I would heartily agree, AND would recommend his companion volume for the New Testament Pseudepigrapha as well... I own both volumes. The book of Jasher is a must read too, as it adds greatly to some of the concepts found in Enoch.

350 posted on 09/29/2010 5:26:38 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit)
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