Posted on 09/17/2010 11:40:59 PM PDT by hylandia
I live in San Francisco, and I think you all know what that implies. I am a dyed-in-the-wool liberal and nearly everyone I interact with daily is as well. I read Free Republic most days to try to understand why Obamacare is so hated, and why the Ground Zero Mosque is taking such flak. And to be honest, I understand most of the viewpoints here. I don't agree, but I understand. The only one I don't understand is the very, very strong opposition to illegal immigration. Is it strictly a legal opposition? Workers that flaunt our laws at the border are likely to flaunt others? Or are there other reasons? I promise not to post again... so the zotting is a foregone response. I am just very interested in exactly why you feel that illegal immigration is so wrong.
Ahhnndddd 101!
IBTEKAAT
(in before the electric kool aid acid test)
In the future you can “progress” to controlling the uteruses of women to limit the overpopulation you created by supporting illegal immigration twenty years ago. In other words, you can “progress” from harming America with illegal immigration to raping America with a Chinese style birth control program. Will you chase down the grandkids of all those illegals you love so much and rip the babies out of their wombs to save the environment?
Many progressive “intellectuals” think that is the way to go in overpopulated countries. That is your future if you don't start firing some synapses.
When the consequences of your stupidity today, comes back to bite you in the butt, you will whine about it. Liberals will have a slogan to blame it on big windmill.
It punishes everyone who abides by the rules.
It's just the Right Thing to do to respect the rules of the places you visit.
By way of analogy, let's say you have a well known friendly neighbor who upon seeing you walk down the street, invites you to join them on the porch for a lemonade or something. You get an open invitation to "come visit any time". That wouldn't make it right to one day see a window open in that house, sneak inside, hide, and start camping out in the basement or something.
Sara, honey, I have no idea where your hypothesis comes from and how it even applies to me.
But, hell, if you want to argue over some invented scenario, let er rip.
I have never been for open borders. It is cruel and inhumane to ask a man, woman or even children to leave their families, neighborhoods, the country of their birth and culture.
It is further cruel that humans live in squalid conditions or to always be relegated to second class humans who are never allowed to roam freely as a citizen.
They get pulled over, no license, we take your car. Now that man’s ability to provide for his family is greatly impacted.
Cars ain’t cheap and he will have to acquire another if he hopes to make it to whatever job he has. Without a car he is Flintstoning it to get from point A to point B.
Without a car he cannot pack his car full of groceries that would feed his family.
Without a car he cannot transport his very sick child to receive medical care.
Being here illegally and telling all your friends to come over further complicates the problem and exacerbates it over and over again.
BTW, we have plenty of water. The shortage is over in the valley and it is robbing farmers of the vital thing required to farm.
And why is that? Because of some particular and special smelt. Hell, I say eat the damn things or use for chumming.
But the shortage is artificial and forced on the farmer by some government bureaucrat who loves to wield power over others not realizing the damning effect it has good hard working Americans and even those who are here illegally.
We have plenty of water in the cities and to each and every household.
So long as it snows in the Sierras will always have plenty of water.
We live in the high desert but it is completely manageable.
Now I ask why you don’t point your question at the people of Arizona, New Mexico, Western Texas and well, dare I say it Southern Nevada.
Those are true deserts and they get their water from everywhere but their respective states.
As far as your dimwitted utopia of cutting the uterus out of a woman, that would be your sick dream and I am thinking your name, SaraJohnson, is your American name.
You are really a Chinese spy. Right?
Now I ask people who
Here are my reasons why I oppose illegal immigration:
First let me say that I am not so much against the illegals per se, because if I was in their shoes suffering in hell and the door to paradise was left open and unguarded I would probably walk in as well.
The people that I’m angry at are the people on this side of the border that let it happen.
Here’s why I think it’s bad:
1. It’s breaking the law, or worse it’s selective enforcement of the law. Which is (or should be) a very serious thing in a society that is founded on the rule of law. This has a caustic effect on the fabric of society, increases cynicism, disrespect for other laws, and enrages those that follow the process.
2. It is my view that nations in essence are containers of culture or value systems. There is an implied contract for the people born inside the boundaries that they will be acculturated to those values. That maintains a degree of peace and harmony within the society. Immigration laws were designed to insure that the people allowed in would not cause social disruptions or be burdensome and in fact would make positive contributions to the society - i.e. were for the benefit of the country first and then the immigrant. Thus to be allowed in you would need to satisfy certain criteria such as acceptance of our culture, having a history not antagonistic to the culture, be of good character, be able to support yourself, be willing to integrate yourself into the society by learning the language,, have some skill set that was desirable, not have any communicable disease, etc.
3. With illegal immigration none of this is possible. So you open up the country to all sort of threats and problems. You will get criminals, terrorists, people with disease, good workers that want to assimilate, good workers that don’t want to assimilate and instead form ghettos and eventually demand special treatment or separation, people that come in for the social benefits and add to the tax burden, etc. We see all this happening and none of it is good. Why inflict a system like that on yourself?
I’m all in favor for increasing LEGAL immigration (if that’s what we want as a society), where all those criteria that I mentioned above are taken into account. (BTW, I’m a legal immigrant myself and I had to go through that type of screening)
Now that I’ve told you why I’m against ILLEGAL immigration, perhaps you can tell me why you favor it.
What color is the sky in your world and who is the arbiter of honesty as a characteristic of intellect?
You? LOL
Well you made a start by aknowledging it is illegal.But you are really just interested in gettin some good juicy backfeed.Maybe some other troll will provide that??
Billions upon billions every year. Try adding them up. Look at California’s deficit. What would it be without years of laying out for illegals. These numbers accumulate. How about the California school system. Classes in Spanish. You pay for all those teachers. After they retire you continue paying for them.
I understand the left thinks the resources are always there but they’re not. I for one don’t wish my lifestyle degraded any further than it is in order to support illegals for supporting them is exactly what we do.
I'm not sure it is wrong or illegal in San Fran.
I bet you that guy can get sued for attempting to practice medicine without a medical license. What a shame.
There you are dragon. I was waiting for your true colors to show.
I’d like to give you a little comprehensive reasoning and see what your response is.
The reason for a border and controls is that we own this country and they own theirs, in a sovereign sense. (There are two levels of ownership: private personal property exists within a framework of a sovereign state whose laws protect those people and property.)
We the people elect our leaders to govern us as we like. One of the things our leaders have recognized is that most of us want a stable electorate that is steeped in the history and culture of this country. And while things change over time, a stable population evolves slowly with few disruptions. To that end, our leaders passed laws to regulate immigration so that we can benefit from a regular infusion of talent and ideas, but not so fast that it disturbs the decisions and tranquility of those who already live here and have invested their whole lives in the culture we have.
But then there are leaders and a minority of the electorate who are not satisfied with the decisions we have made for ourselves. (You are probably one.) They have not been entirely successful at changing minds to their way of thinking. So a solution they have come to is to change the electorate by subverting the very laws they passed to placate current citizens and under cover of darkness import a new future electorate they believe will shift things more their way, mainly socialist-thinking people from Mexico and other third world countries.
Any fair-minded person should see that illegally substituting one electorate for another in order to rig elections down the road is wrong. More insidiously, while claiming to be for diversity and against racism, they use the conflict over illegal immigration to create solidarity along racial lines of several minority groups and division in the majority to consolidate their power base for changing the system away from what the majority of existing citizens originally voted for, even before giving amnesty and the vote to the newcomers.
The reaction of the majority of the current electorate appears to be an opposition to immigrant groups and an insipient racism. In fact, it is a reaction, not always well-voiced, to defend our right to govern ourselves by majority consent without subversion from outside and illegitimate tactics on the part of the minority in this country.
PM and posted. Please feel free to respond privately or in thread.
I think you go off the rails a bit in point 3. It is all true but goes more into side-effects than the main issue. (No one would be for deliberately proliferating violent crime.) See what you think of my statement in 114.
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but there was no free medical and welfare and SSI and soup kitchens etc....of course there was very little taxation as well....
now look.....
we citizens are mandated to pay income tax, and SS tax, and Medicare tax....and to get car insurance....
we have no choice...
but we have an implied contract.....we pay as good citizens will do and there will be a little money for you when you reach 62, and health care when you reach 65....we'll have good schools and highways .....
IOWS....we pay for services for now, and for later....WE PAY.....
but you have millions sneaking into our country without paying all that citizens do and they are bankrupting SS and Medicare, the jail system, overrunning our schools, and our hospitals....
so our taxes are buying us NOTHING....everything promised or implies..SS,Medicare,good schools, good healthcare, etc is being taken away from us....STOLEN by people that have not invested in this country like a citizen....
I beleive in immigration....legal....let these people apply along with the Russians and the VietNamese, and the Pacific Islanders....
Best one yet!!
“In fact, it is a reaction, not always well-voiced, to defend our right to govern ourselves by majority consent without subversion from outside and illegitimate tactics on the part of the minority in this country.”
I don’t disagree with that. That’s what I was alluding to with my comment about “being angry with people on this side of the border for letting it happen”.
“I think you go off the rails a bit in point 3. It is all true but goes more into side-effects than the main issue.”
Those side effect are not trivial. They are the unintended consequences of what you call the minority’s scheme to gain power through illegal immigration. They for example may not necessarily want a balkanized country, eventually disintegrating, but they may get it anyway. They may not want terrorists or criminals crossing the border, but they’ll get them anyway. They may not (or may) want a heavier welfare burden, but they’ll get it anyway.
You make the case for why so many people in this country favor illegals (or don’t fight it). I agree with that. What I was pointing out was all the other bad consequences that happen with illegals, whether schemed or not. It’s bad because of all of the above.
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