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To: Ratman83
Federalist #46 takes on a test case describing a situation where the states are responding to federal tyranny.

Federaist #47 takes on secession, as disunion, but from an oblique angle. Billthedrill and I posted Federalist #40 today, and we're a few weeks away from tackling #46 and #47.

To jump the gun a little, it depends on whether the Constitution is a treaty or a contract. In Federalist #47, I'll be posting a matrix spreadsheet showing how Treaty People viewed various aspects of the Founding Documents versus Contract People. (If anyone knows how to post a table in HTML, I'd appreciate some advice.)

In short, Treaty People treated secession as a unilateral right. Contract People believed that the other parties to the contract needed to approve the secession. Both parties disagreed on how that contract, the Union, had been created, which we will show in the matrix.

Lincoln, a Contract Person, stated that the Southern states could leave, but only if three-fourths of the states approved. He got that figure from Article V, which pertains to the amendatory process, so Lincoln's thinking there is a little flaky.

John Calhoun, a Treaty Person, had earlier stated that if two-thirds of the states nullified a federal law, it was repealed, but he also got that number from a different clause in Article V, which pertains to the amendatory process, not the legislative process. Thus, Calhoun's thinking on the subject was a bit flaky, too.

I suspect the thread for Federalist #47 will be a long one.

183 posted on 08/05/2010 11:00:45 AM PDT by Publius (Unless the Constitution is followed, it is simply a piece of paper.)
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To: Publius

Thanks for your summation and I look forward to the Federalist #47 thread.


186 posted on 08/05/2010 11:10:07 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Publius
"To jump the gun a little, it depends on whether the Constitution is a treaty or a contract."

I'm no expert on treaties but permit me a question. Do treaties generally have opt out provisions for either party? Such as something written in the treaty if one or more parties break the treaty.
190 posted on 08/05/2010 11:11:59 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Publius

Thank you for your response, I have enjoyed your other posts and look forward to the ones to come.


219 posted on 08/05/2010 11:55:09 AM PDT by Ratman83
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