To: Old Teufel Hunden
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/histdox/fed_09.html
About midway through ...
“... the confederacy may be dissolved, and the confederates preserve their sovereignty.”
Granted, Hamilton was actually discussing benefits of the Union and not secession. Since he was pleading FOR the constitution, it only makes sense that he would highlight the reasons FOR such a union. He, Madision and Jay however, went to great lengths to highlight the supremacy of the people and the states (in that order) over the national government EXCEPT where the federal government was specifically granted supremacy.
Jefferson even went so far as to adress the idea of disolving the union during his first inaugural adress.
All of these people were AGAINST any state seceding from the Union / disolving the Union. In most cases they stated that it would have adverse consequences - what I do NOT find is any of them saying that a state could not do so.
173 posted on
08/05/2010 10:14:00 AM PDT by
An.American.Expatriate
(Here's my strategy on the War against Terrorism: We win, they lose. - with apologies to R.R.)
To: An.American.Expatriate
"what I do NOT find is any of them saying that a state could not do so."
You are asking me to prove a negative which is faulty argument. By their actions, even you admit that they were against secession and found no basis to legally do so. What they were for is outlined in the Declaration of Independence. That is:
"When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."
Jefferson then went on to list the grievances of the colonies against the Empire. Jefferson talked many times of rebelling against an overburdened government. Do you think that Jefferson would consent that it was a good idea to rebell against the United States government over the idea of extending the institution of slavery (denying people their liberties) to new states and territories? The institution of slavery was antithetical to everything the founders believed in. They only consented to allow it because they knew it was a deal breaker to form the union. They kicked the can down the road, but make no mistake about it. They meant for the situation to be resolved and for blacks to have freedom, liberty and equality.
To: An.American.Expatriate
"Jefferson even went so far as to adress the idea of disolving the union during his first inaugural adress."
I believe you are referring to this:
"We have called by different names brethren of the same principle. We are all Republicans, we are all Federalists. If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it."
He is using rhetorical flourish to talk about tolerance of opinion. Certainly not that he thinks it should be dissolved. He also does not say here that states can simply choose to dissolve without some process, such as an amendment. Notice how he says that these people are in error of opinion.
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson