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To: aimhigh
From my piece.

Civil government fails, as per Romans chapter 13. So what compels pastors, many who claim that their local churches are the Church that Jesus is building, to allow unregenerate, Christ-hating, Bible-rejecting civil authorities to take charge of the Lord's churches? What compels pastors to submit the operation of God's churches (and their Christian schools) to the devil's crowd? Many pastors will take every license, submit to every examination and inspection, pay every fee and tax, follow every rule of lost educators, submit to God-haters the details of every plan, without protest, thinking all the while that they are obeying Romans chapter 13! And they submit to the enemies of God all the while they preach Matthew 28:18—"...All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth," and Ephesians 1:22 - "And hath put all things under [Christ's] feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church..."

We have had no choice but to consider these issues very deeply, as we have been and are involved in Christian work where governments openly attack Christian work, Christian evangelists, and Christian churches.

Have you ever stopped to consider how it is that Christians are supposed to operate in places where Christian churches are required to register by law and to accept every restriction of government?

How do you recommend that they obey GOVERNMENT as "Caesar" and obey God at the same time?

How about in a country where the government "Caesar," although it actually openly declares atheistic Darwinianism to be the truth, hates God and scorns Him and His son, Jesus Christ, and yet actually operates more than seventeen Bible schools to train the "ministers" for the Christian churches in the country?

The churches are required to accept the graduates of "Caesars" Bible schools, including women, even if the church believes that women are not to become pastors or deacons. (1 Timothy 3)

So there are hundreds of thousands of underground, illegal, house churches of faithful Christians, all in disobedience to "Caesar."

Do these people practice "mental gymnastics" to somehow get around Romans ch. 13 "with the goal of rebellion to any authority they don't like?"

No, they have recognized that government itself is obligated to obey Romans ch. 13, and where it does not, the HIGHER POWER, Jesus Christ, must be obeyed rather than man.

By the way, having worked with such brethren abroad for more than 20 years, I also support the quickly growing unregistered, un-incorporated, non-501(c)3 church movement in the United States.

One day soon, because so many pastors and church members will "render unto 'Caesar FedGov'" anything he wants on the faulty use of Romans ch. 13, underground, unregistered churches in America will be the only places where the Bible will still be taught, and where you will find our Lord's true saints and churches---as it has been for years in other lands.

10 posted on 07/23/2010 3:22:59 PM PDT by John Leland 1789 (Grateful)
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To: John Leland 1789
How do you recommend that they obey GOVERNMENT as "Caesar" and obey God at the same time?

Returning to Romans 13, the scripture says, "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities." The context leaves no room for selective rebellion. The key instruction is not the word 'obey', but 'be subject'.

1 Peter 2:13 repeats the instruction with, "Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether to the king as supreme, or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good." Peter continues in the same context, by saying, "Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh." This scripture does not contain an escape clause for rebellion if the master is ungodly.

There is a difference between obeying and submitting. Human law comes with two parts:
1- do (or don't do) item A.
2- be punished for disobeying #1

When human law conflicts with God's law, we obey God's law, but we still recognize and submit to the human authority's punishment. That's why Peter goes on to speak of suffering for doing good, and uses Jesus as an example of such suffering. Jesus spoke to Pilate about the authority he received from above, and He didn't rebel against that authority.

11 posted on 07/24/2010 9:03:44 AM PDT by aimhigh
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