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To: lmr
You have stated a hypothesis as if it were true. What is true is that you are speculating. What was true for me was that it was much cheaper to run my GM EV1.

My electricity cost was 10 cents per kilowatt hour. This gave me an energy cost for my lead-acid EV1 of 2.6 cents per mile. In comparison, my gasoline-powered vehicle that got 22 miles per gallon had an energy cost of 6.82 cents per mile (gasoline cost $1.50 per gallon at the time). I charged by EV1 after midnight when energy cost and usage was low. The energy for charging came from an alternative California Energy Source Company using geothermal energy production.

10 posted on 07/13/2010 11:38:29 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon (Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Jeff Gordon

“You have stated a hypothesis as if it were true.”

I gave an opinion only. I did not claim to be an expert, only skeptical.

I don’t know how your energy cost for your electrical vehicle stacks up against other electric producers, but I’m sure the rates would vary greatly in different locales, but alas, so would the price of gasoline but probably not as much.

Comparing the EV1 to your other car may not be an accurate comparison itself. In the same class as the EV1, gasoline cars can be purchased that easily get 40 mpg. Diesel cars at that size are known to do 50 mpg or better. Both Gas and Diesel have better range, a higher top end and probably accelerate just as well or better.

I’m not saying this car couldn’t serve a useful purpose. If you’re looking at it to replace the Internal Combustion engine, altogether, you would be for the most-part confining yourself to short commutes in the big city. But I guess that’s what Greyhound, Amtrak and our airports are for, right?

Aside from all of that, where is the ROMANCE with a vehicle like that? Unless you’re a real geek, it isn’t there. This car isn’t pretty like a Muscle Car is pretty. Might as well be riding a moped.


11 posted on 07/13/2010 11:55:27 PM PDT by lmr (God punishes Conservatives by making them argue with fools.)
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To: Jeff Gordon
I charged by EV1 after midnight when energy cost and usage was low.

The problem with this scenario comes when a significant number of people have EV's and everyone decides to charge at night when the energy costs and usage is low. Suddenly, energy costs during that time frame will spike, usage will spike and the utility will find itself having to scramble for periods of low usage time to do routine maintenance. No greenie I've ever heard ever acknowledges this simple fact. There is no free lunch.....

21 posted on 07/14/2010 5:18:10 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Stop the insanity - Flush Congress!)
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To: Jeff Gordon

> My electricity cost was 10 cents per kilowatt hour. This gave me an energy cost for my lead-acid EV1 of 2.6 cents per mile.

This is a bit misleading. As anybody who understands rechargeable battery technology can tell you, the major cost factor with batteries is the fairly short service life and the high replacement cost of the batteries themselves, not the cost of electricity.

The initial lead-acid battery pack for the EV1 stored 16.5KW/h and had an expected total service life of about 7000 KW/h before it would need to be replaced. Therefore, it could only store and deliver about $700 worth of electricity. I have not been able to find exact numbers on the replacement cost of the 1.5 ton battery, but it was probably over $4000. Therefore, the recurring cost of the battery replacement would probably have been about 15 cents per mile. Ouch.

The second-generation nickel-hydride battery pack for the EV1 could had a capacity over 25KW/h, and had a service life of around 24,000 KW/h, but the replacement cost of the NiMH battery would probably have been over $12,000 - so the battery cost-per-mile would still be about 14 or 15 cents.

There is a company called Ceramatec which claims to be able to deliver a sodium/sulfur battery which will have a lifetime battery cost of only 3 cents per KW/h delivered. However, the characteristics of the battery are not an ideal match for an electric car.

Personally, I believe that an electric car would be practical if it used a zinc/air fuel cell instead of a battery pack and included a small 15hp Wankel engine/generator and a 3 gallon gas tank as an emergency range-extender.


44 posted on 07/15/2010 1:58:07 AM PDT by Mr170IQ
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