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To: Wonder Warthog; Swordmaker
You were saying ...

Nope. My decisions, both as a business owner and as a consumer of products are both informed by my moral and ethical standards. There is no difference.

There may be two "categories" of decisions on your part that are incorporated into one person, being that you're that person who does takes care of the (1) business operations, and then you're (2) a person who buys consumer goods (just like all other consumers) -- but they are still two completely different things. You are just saying that you're doing the one thing (#1) and the other thing (#2). The consumer (and the government and society at large) still has nothing to do with how that business is run, other than simply the laws that govern any "legalities" involved -- and that has absolutely nothing with a CEO being an SOB and an asshole and the worst specimen of humanity in the world, as far as how he treats people.

You'll notice that I said this of a "business"... of which you're talking about as one of those items ...

As I was saying, those things are related to how someone wants to run the business and it's their choice (as a business). If that business wants to have a CEO who is a miserable human being and is an asshole and is an SOB -- that's their "business" and it's not something that is related to society and it's not a legal matter -- and society should have absolutely nothing at all to do with imposing anything on that business in making that human being a "better person" or not. And if the guy is an SOB and the worst asshole in the world, as long as the laws are being followed -- it absolutely does not matter.

And if somone in a business wants to make sure their CEO says, "please" and "thank you" for everything he does -- and the principals in the business want to give "sensitivity training" for everyone so that if they say a "cross word" to anyone, then they have to go back for 10 more sessions in "sensitivity training" -- that's "their business" too... and I don't care -- one way or the other -- whether they are the most sensitive people in the world or they are the worst jerks in the world. It makes absolutely no difference to me as a consumer.

In your case, you said that you want to run the business a certain way -- and you'll notice that this is already incorporated into that statement -- in that a business can run thing any way they want -- either having an SOB and the worst person in the world as a CEO, or they can have someone who cries and sympathizes with everyone when they stub their toe -- I personally don't care how they run their business -- and if I were buying a product from you -- I wouldn't care, in the least, how you ran the business either -- I simply don't care.

AND..., you'll find that most consumers not only don't care, they don't spend two seconds even thinking about it, in the first place. LOL ...

Likewise for the "consumer end" of things, I also think it absolutely does not matter -- in the least, how consumers want to evaluate their purchases, as to how it looks, as to whether it smells good, as to whether it's made of metal or plastic, as to whether it's made here (or "there") as to whether the employees are happy or they are not happy -- it doesn't matter, in the least, how the consumer wants to evaluate his purchases.

AND..., you'll find out there, too -- that the vast and overwhelming numbers of consumers evaluate their purchases as to how it directly relates to them, personally, with their money, convenience, value, worth -- and whether they want it or not -- all having absolutely nothing as to what goes on inside the company.

BUT, if you, as a consumer wants to research all the companies for all those grocery items you buy on the shelves, and evaluate the company in terms of the toilet paper you buy, and evaluate and research the company and how they operate with their employees, for the toothpaste you buy, and evaluate the company for the hard drives that you put in your computer, and you want to research the company for that loaf of bread for that sandwich you make ... well, I'm glad you have all that time ... LOL ... and certainly go right ahead ... :-)

That's your perfect right as a consumer to waste your time with all those products that you buy if you want -- and even if you can ever find that out in the first place ... LOL ...

But, you'll find out that the vast majority of people only buy their products, goods and services, for themselves -- strictly on the basis of price, value, what they want and how it directly impacts them, personally at that very moment -- and not even a very small minority of people will ever research anything that a company is doing that made that product, good or service.


You can argue all you want for a totally amoral business standard, but the simple fact is that such an attitude is harmful to society. Which fact is well-testified to throughout recent history. The "pure-food-and-drug" laws came out of precisely such an amoral attitude. Lester Madoff is the most recent sterling example.

Very simply, society and our legislatures and legislators can make all the laws that they want to govern every single aspect of the business that you are doing and that others are doing. That's fine, because that goes through our political process and if the larger majority of people think that "such a thing" (whatever it is) -- needs to be made "legal or illegal" -- then so be it -- and the government is "going to tell you how to run your business" -- in that aspect of the law.

Now, I'll have you know that many here think that government should stay completely out of business -- but I take the view that businesses can do "anything they want to do" as long as it's legal -- and no one should interfere with their business.

And if society wants to interefere with their business and tell that business exactly how it should "conduct its business" in a certain area -- that's fine, because that will have gone through the political process and that means that the larger majority of the people in this society thinks that all businesses (at least in that area being "governed") should do things "exactly as the government tells them to do" ... :-)

Otherwise, everyone should "stay out of businesses" and let them do anything that they want to do.

AND..., I'll guarantee you that there's never going to be a law that says a CEO cannot be an SOB or the worst human being in the world. When our government starts telling businesses the "type of person" that a CEO must be -- that's when we've gone completely socialist and completely Marxist... just like the liberals and Marxists want us to do...

Sorry, there will always be CEOs who are the worst specimens of humanity in our society and yet they will be CEOs because they know how to get something done in business and they can make for a successful business. Nothing that you or society will do -- will ever change that... Consumers don't care, they don't know and don't even "want to know", and they wouldn't care, even if they did know... :-)


Your argument will be "but THAT was illegal"....but the answer to that is that the weakening of ethics eventually leads to criminality.

It's really something super-easy to handle -- if something is illegal and someone in the company does it -- send them to jail. That's all you have to do... nothing more needed.

But, however many laws you make and however much you want to "go socialist and Marxist" with businesses -- I'll guarantee you -- you'll never, in a million years -- remake CEOs into something that they aren't if you don't like CEOs who are SOBs, who are the worst specimens of humanity that you've ever seen and that they treat other people bad and even hollar at them and make others in the company afraid of them. Sorry, you're always going to have that with a CEO, when it requires a strong hand to run a company and get eveyone "in line" to get a product or service "out the door" exactly in the way require to make it successful.

That's why those kinds of CEOs can be very successful, because they get their company "in line" for what the goal of the company is.

If you don't like those kinds of CEO's -- well that's too bad, because they're not going to go away... sorry to disappoint you.

195 posted on 04/10/2010 7:37:52 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler
"That's why those kinds of CEOs can be very successful, because they get their company "in line" for what the goal of the company is."

Yeah, right. That's why so many of those companies no longer exist, having been destroyed by the very people who were supposed to be building them up.

Here's a clue....those business leaders never gave a crap about the companies they were heading, their only focus was their own advancement, by any means necessary, even if that meant destroying the very means for their success.

A great many things which are now illegal were at one time not so. The reason they became illegal was due to abuses by "capitalists" (i.e. business leaders).

I can't decide which group in universities has done more damage to the US, schools of education who turn out crappy teachers, or schools of business who turn out MBA's.

But you keep right on supporting business amorality as today's MBA's shut down your company and/or sell it off to China.

208 posted on 04/11/2010 4:01:21 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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