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To: eclecticEel; plain talk; SunkenCiv; All

Slave or free, a complicated question. Roman slaves generally had more rights than American slaves. Were “free” men able to move from one village to another without higher level permission? What was owed to the state in labor and production by various strata of society? Were buried laborers/”slaves” more or less healthy/well nourished than neighboring villagers/farmers? All questions that can clarify the extent of slavery/citizenship.

So far as Moses and the slaves, that was a much later period of history. The pyramids were more than 4000 years ago before the chaos of the First Intermediate Period. Google Ipuwer papyrus. Abraham and the subsequent migration into Egypt was after the FIP, perhaps because of the FIP. Who knows what changes might have taken place in the 3 or 4 hundred years after the first of Abraham’s people settled in Egypt. They might have become so numerous that it awakened jealosy. Also the exodus period was probably after the Second Intermediate Period, and the Hyksos (shepherd kings) period in Egyptian history. Were they relatives? and subsequently despised?


22 posted on 01/10/2010 9:29:11 PM PST by gleeaikin
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To: gleeaikin
Roman slaves generally had more rights than American slaves.

Depends which period of Roman history you're talking about. In the early days, nobody except the pater familias had any legal rights whatsoever. He had power of life and death, quite literally, over slaves, wife, sons, daughters, daughters-in-law, etc. I believe he could even legally sell a son, which makes the distinction between slave and free subject to change at any moment.

Romans, until quite late, routinely executed their slaves freely. Augustus was particularly disgusted by a guy who fed them to his lampreys. It wasn't illegal, just kind of bad taste.

Romans openly used their slaves, male and female, for sexual purposes. They also routinely murdered their slaves' children.

OTOH, there was never anything resembling a racial component to Roman slavery, except that Romans viewed themselves as the master race over everybody.

Slaves in Rome gained more legal rights as time went by.

From early days, a freed Roman slave immediately became a Roman citizen and was then free to compete economically. Many became wealthy and powerful. His children were generally accepted socially.

All things considered, I'd rather have been a slave in Rome than Jamaica.

23 posted on 01/11/2010 7:57:45 AM PST by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: gleeaikin

4000? I’m guessing you meant 400? The Giza pyramids were built about 2500 BC, the 1st IP was a few hundred years later, and the Exodus was about 1000 years after the 4th dyn Giza pyramids went up; in between time the Middle Kingdom pharaohs had large pyramids built — of mud brick — and what is left of them can still be seen, including this big one in the Fayyum:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawara


29 posted on 01/12/2010 7:22:14 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Happy New Year! Freedom is Priceless.)
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