Posted on 11/24/2009 1:46:39 PM PST by Steelfish
Oh, and as another poster noted—I am quite haughty. When you’re conservative AND strategically correct, it comes naturally.
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Haughty isn’t the word I would use, arrogant is more like it.
When you don’t know God, it comes naturally.
I was.
The fact of the matter is that LDS inc. does a really good job of hiding the fallacies and inconsistencies in their doctrine. A key thing to remember about the LDS general authorities is that they are on record stating that they are not to be questioned. Once they speak on a subject or topic, the thinking has been done. The sheeple are to do nothing but obey. Questioning them is grounds for excommunication. I am an apostate in their eyes. Which is fine by me.
Like you, I was questioning the intent, and rationale behind the postings. Once I started really reading to comprehend what was being posted by the "anti's", I got it. I had been mislead and my wife and son are currently being misled. The trick now is how to figure out a way to get my wife to see the truth. But I believe that after 30+ years for her, it will be nigh on impossible to achieve that.
Do the posts come across a bit harsh? Maybe, but you have to remember, the internet is tone deaf. Once you start reading the posts in a different mindset, wanting to learn and understand, the meaning and tone become clear.
SZ
heh heh heh
;)
Actually, my posts have not been about Mormon doctrine, for the most part. They have dwelt on the danger of being a pharisee when speaking to those we consider spiritually misguided.
“I seriously, VERY seriously, weep when one of my older LDS friends die believing that Joseph Smith and his false gospel will get them to Heaven, There are no ‘second chances’ after this life and there is no way that the LDS church teaches a saving faith in Jesus Christ. I know, I was one for many years. And God saved me out of it, that is exactly why I am so passionate about this.”
I see that, reaganut, and I respect your zeal and fervor. You and other ex-Mormons would probably be the best people to reach out to other LDS. Since I have far less experience dealing with Mormons than you do, I would give your opinion about evangelizing them more weight than mine. However, I still feel it’s very important to make sure we really are doing God’s work in the way he wants us to. I would be interested in a study of the techniques that work best with Mormons.
No.
I do know God.
I’m a Christian.
If you will read my posts, I think you will see that I am not really discussing the validity of Mormon beliefs so much as the way in which Christian evangelizers deliver the message.
As I’ve said before, I think Christ calls us to be a bit above harsh recriminations when expressing our beliefs and our concerns about others’ beliefs. Since you were called over at the end of the thread, I will tell you that I have cited a number of passages of Scripture to illustrate why I feel that way.
I feel every soul is very precious, misguided or not, and I would never want to be responsible for doing something negative that would push someone further away from conversion to Christianity. I think it’s perfectly effective to explain Christianity and our differences without sarcasm, name-calling, condemnation or ridicule. The internet isn’t the only thing that’s tone deaf!
Thanks for your input.
Perhaps a poll of FR ex-Mormons about what kind of evangelization worked with them might be instructive. Maybe you, with your response to harsh techniques, are in the minority. Would it matter if the majority of ex-Mormons said a respectful discussion worked better with them? If I were committed to a certain technique of evangelizing, I’d make sure it was actually effective. Otherwise, I’d be wasting my time or actually pushing souls away from Christ. That would be awful!
I certainly would not want to face my Maker having influenced even one soul away from salvation.
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SZonian responed to your post about the techniques on here. I have witnessed to LDS and mentored ex-LDS for almost 17 years (and was LDS for several years myself). If you can say the same, you can “instruct” me on how to witness to them. Until you have walked a mile in my shoes...
Many of them came out due to what you would consider “harsh” techniques.
And different evangelization techniques work with different people. Recently someone did an study on evangelism techniques to the LDS, and came up with 7 different methods. All were deemed to be effective. The one you choose depends on several factors, but do not rule out any one (including ridicule).
I don’t convert, God converts, and I seek His guidance in what method to use with an individual. I have NO power to convert someone nor to push them away from the Gospel, only God has the power to convert. If my method is incorrect, then I will trust God to bring someone else into their life who has the method that God can use to reach them. And I have seen this literally hundereds of times in the last 18 years (including my conversion out of Mormonism). It is not about us, it is about HIM.
You said: “I certainly would not want to face my Maker having influenced even one soul away from salvation. “ Well, I would like even less to have to face God having NOT told someone the truth (especially about Mormonism), and to have just adopted and “I’m ok, your Ok, attitude (which many even here on FR have) and have them go to Hell. That would be worse. Also, we will not be judge on our ACTIONS, but the motivations of those actions. And my motive is truth, love, and the Glory of God.
FYI, I am not in the “ridicule” camp for the most part and am more temperate than some others here. I am even more temperate witnessing in person, and please remember things come across in forums and chat differently than in person.
The pharisees didn’t have a concept of “saved”, and no, they were doing it for their own glory, that is one of the things Christ condemned them for.
That's about all I was relating to. If you take the time, you will notice that there is a "history" between certain "anti's" and mormons. It gets heated at times and prior to my understanding, I was like you. The delivery of the message is what caused me consternation.
Since I posted against the "anti's" I was drawn into some discussions and after a while pulled back and lurked. It was then that I started to truly comprehend the intent and meaning behind the postings and started investigating further. Which then led me to abandon the lds religion.
I have to acknowledge that these folks posting know what they're talking about. They will help any lurkers who are in the throes of questioning the lds religion and provide guidance and resources.
As noted on some websites and I believe here, the vast majority of mormons who leave the lds religion actually go agnostic or atheist. Abandoning God altogether because they can't reconcile what they've been taught all their lives with the truth.
I've sinced figured out that it's not the delivery that one needs to be concerned with. It's the content in the delivered message that's important. There will always be those whose feelings are hurt because they wear their heart on their sleeve. That's immaturity imo. If you're going to debate, you need to be able to look at your opponents point of view as well.
Most, if not all, of the posters have continually affirmed that they do NOT have a problem with individual mormons. Their fight is against mormonism and its false doctrines and teachings.
SZ
I’m referring to Catholics.
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Don’t bother, E. He obviously doesn’t understand the differences in your grouping of Catholics. He must group them all together (and I suspect consider them the “whore of Babylon” that the LDS church teaches).
Those without faith, do not understand the difference between faith and mere religious observance.
“Those without faith, do not understand the difference between faith and mere religious observance.”
Those whose faith is weak create distinctions to ease their own gnawing doubt.
In the past you've said that you think the Bible is allegory.
Do you believe that Christ really lived and died a real death to save us from real sins and real hell? Have you chosen to accept His free gift of salvation and repented of your sin? (Except the sin of haughtiness, by your own admission?)
Proverbs 3:34 He mocks proud mockers but gives grace to the humble.
James 4:6 But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."
1 Peter 5:5 Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."
How can you claim to know God anyway, when He resists the proud and you've admitted yourself that you are proud?
I certainly would not want to face my Maker having influenced even one soul away from salvation. What was it Christ said about people who do that? Oh, yes, it would be “better for them if they’d never been born.”
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Bible scripture on that, please kid...
Where do you find this stuff ???
my posts have not been about Mormon doctrine, for the most part.
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Why not ???
This thread is about mormon doctrine...
might work as a thickening agent. I would question the taste though.
“In the past you’ve said that you think the Bible is allegory.”
Yes, the bible contains allegory. Lots of it.
And I’m a Christian. Just not the wayward microcosmic variety where your allegiance lies.
It depends on your dice throw, the spells you have purchased and if you are facing a troll or not...
You did say D&D and not LDS right?
They are in the genre but the games are somewhat different...
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Not all that different, Urim and Thummim for dice, temple oaths for spells, and Bob Millet is a troll if I have ever seen one...
And don’t forget you get a bonus if you are wearing +13 holy garments.
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