Posted on 09/27/2009 8:43:24 PM PDT by RoloSport
Are UFO's real? Are we alone in this vast universe? If there is other life out there in the universe have they visited our planet?
Haha.
There is plenty of evidence for at least some UFOs being solid craft, and built by someone other than ourselves. Testing of layered scrap containing layers of bismuth that react strongly to magnetism, are just one example.
Considering the odd sightings and encounters over the years, dating back to ancient times, the parallels of modern encounters to demonic or fairy encounters, the video and photographic evidence, along with forensic evidence of several cases, you can't deny something weird is going on.
Personally, and it's just my opinion, I don't think visitors or physical UFOs of non-terrestrial origin violate science at all. If you believe in multi-dimensional theory, they could be ultra-terrestrial beings that can travel between different dimensions or realities, or beings from our own reality that have learned to use dimensional travel as a way of traversing great distances.
A lot of secondary paranormal activity associated with UFO encounters or flaps could be a result of dimensional bleedover, caused by their method of travel. Sort of like eddies or disturbances in the water, when you interrupt the natural flow of a stream.
If you want to read some stuff that will really make you go WTF, I'd try Daimonic Reality by Patrick Harpur, Passport to Magonia by Jacques Vallee, Hunt for the Skinwalker by Colm Kelleher, Glimpses of Other Realities Vol. 1 and 2 by Linda Moulton Howe (particularly Vol. 2, High Strangeness), Operation Trojan Horse by John Keel or Mysterious America by Loren Coleman, to name a few.
“Common sense and knowledge of what credible people have experienced/written about UFOs tell me that going into denial about it is a defensive mechanism folks like you take to bury your fear of the genuinely possible.”
I have no fear of it being possible. As I’ve stated, I think the universe is likely teaming with life. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if it were even more advanced than ours. Where conditions are right, life probably and likely forms. Given enough time, it evolves. Given even more time it likely brings about intelligent creatures. That much is obvious as it has happened in at least one case that I know of.
I do not, however think they have visited us, as I simply do not see how they could travel the vast distances it would take to get here.
Moreover, the laws of physics as we currently understand them would prevent it. So ...
Until I see the scientific method applied in a rigorous fashion. Until it is observable. Until I see hard verifiable and irrefutable evidence, it is just a frolic, a figment of the imagination more suitable to science fiction.
Photographic evidence does not do it for me. People making claims won’t do it for me. Seeing is believing. I take a lot of things on faith, but not this one.
So . . .
how long have you been suffering
as a “CONSERVATIVE”
under this DELUSION
that the Main Stream Media
publishes the TRUTH???
cue laughing dog.
MSM has only done what the PTB have allowed for at least 100 years.
When Jung said he "knew" God existed he was a lying egotistical arrogant knothead -- I say that as a Christian who loves Jesus and who understands the difference between knowing something and believing in something. I don't know that God exists or that Jesus died for us, I believe it with all my heart, with the same faith that the bible says can move mountains.
I don't "believe" in gravity, I just live with it every day; I DO believe in God.
Many of us here have said what we think of your theory that the Soviets used UFOs to weaken religion. What do you think of the theory that world governments are covering up UFO evidence in order to avoid mass panic? How is it implausible?
More to the point: what would you do if extraterrestrials officially made themselves known to the world in your lifetime and blew away your belief that they're mere fantasy? How would you react?
What if they don’t need to travel great distances, because it’s inter-dimensional, or because they’ve been here as long as we have? Hell, they could be far, far more advanced than we are, and have colonies spread far and wide. They could be established inside our own solar system, without us realizing it. For all we know, we’re one big antfarm, to be observed and tinkered with. Not that I’m advocating that scenario, I’m just saying, the travel distance argument isn’t a reason to deny the whole thing.
There doesn’t seem to be any room for agnosticism in this dicussion. I can tell you that I’ve seen enough evidence to indicate that the possibility is real. We also now know there is water on both Mars and the Moon. The satellites of Jupiter indicate the existence of water too.
Even Jesus said, “Within My Father’s Mansion are many rooms.”
Earth may not be his only ‘project’ as it were.
I’ll tell you this - I don’t know. My entire bridge watch witnessed some pretty dramatic non-ballistic behavior from an aerial vehicle, with estimated airspeeds of over 1200 mph making a hard right turn that would have liquified a human being at the controls.
I didn’t see it. My head was in the radar at the time, and didn’t pick it up. Four guys on watch did, including a Master Chief who’s forgotten more about being at sea than most sailors will. All in different parts of the ship. It was also picked up by another vessel in the area at the time.
So, I don’t know. I’m not saying they do, and not saying they don’t, but I don’t think you can be dispositive about saying ET life and technology doesn’t exist.
“I take it then that you haven’t read Leap of Faith and never knew Gordon Cooper.”
I haven’t read his book.
I didn’t know Gordo as well as some of the others. Most of the original 7 guys settled in established communities like League City, Timber Cove and El Lago. Nassau Bay started being built out just before the third group came in. I do, however, remember he was a real cut-up at the parties my mom and dad threw. By the time I was ten, I could look him in the eye, he was so short.
We left for New Orleans when I was 13, and I didn’t see Gordo again until my dad’s 60th birthday back in ‘89. It was also the last time I saw him.
The guys were ribbing him about pushing some kind of weird alternative aviation fuel and how he flew a plane full of it and landed somewhere in the captital, like in front of Congress on the street or something. Don’t know the exact facts.
So you say. Are you SURE?
No one with any sense expects people to take UFO stuff on "faith" because contrary to what you have said, it is NOT "like a religion." It is a matter of informed common sense.
I have never seen the center of the earth. I have never "seen" gravity. I've never seen an atom. I have never had it explained to me why my identical-twin brothers have, many times, felt each other's physical pain in accidents when the two were miles, even many hundreds of miles, apart; it defies the laws of physics as we presently understand them.
The difference is that I know better than to deny those truths because no "proof" or hard evidence of ANY of it can be procured according to today's "scientific" standards. Atomic "theory" is, as popular parlance would have it (and does with regard to evolutionary theory, responsible for virtually every antivirus ever developed) is "just a theory," after all.
This is why "fear of the known" is for me such a tenable explanation for otherwise sensible folks who pick and choose what they consider "scientifically" tenable and what they consider "frolic" and "imagination" when there's actually little hard difference in the way those people gage the "realness" one one from the other.
Amen, and interesting post.
“it isn’t a matter of belief, it’s a matter of common sense and being prepared.”
Prepared?? Prepared for what? If some alien life form has figured out how to defy the laws of physics by exceeding the speed of light, it is likely we will be nothing more than insects in his mind. Not sure how you plan to be prepared for that.
“When Jung said he “knew” God existed he was a lying egotistical arrogant knothead — I say that as a Christian who loves Jesus and who understands the difference between knowing something and believing in something. I don’t know that God exists or that Jesus died for us, I believe it with all my heart, with the same faith that the bible says can move mountains. “
Obviously you have no clue what Carl Jung was saying, or the spirit in which he was saying it. His experience with the Living God gave him the knowledge of God. Where there is ‘knowing’ there is no belief....
Paul wrote..”But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. 10I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead. - Philippians 3:7-11.....Knowing is quite a different thing from believing.
“What do you think of the theory that world governments are covering up UFO evidence in order to avoid mass panic? How is it implausible?”
I never said it was implausible, just that no credible undeniable proof has been presented.
“More to the point: what would you do if extraterrestrials officially made themselves known to the world in your lifetime and blew away your belief that they’re mere fantasy? How would you react?”
Don’t you even read posts you respond to? Where did I say that E.T.’s are mere fantasy? Once again, it’s all possible. It’s just that there is no CREDIBLE, UNDENIABLE, PROOF!! I also wrote that I have no problem if they made themselves known, it wouldn’t blow my beliefs away. This is God’s creation and he could have created as many worlds as he liked.
I have a question for you and those who won’t even consider that E.T. has never visited us....What if it turns out that it is proven that we were never visited? That the whole phenomenon has a psychological explination (of which Carl Jung offered a very plausible one). How would you react?
“Thanks for your perspective on this. You grew up around a great group of men.”
The juxtaposition was fortuitous.
I lived at 1307 Davon Lane. My back yard shared its border with the back yard of James McDivitt and his wife Pat. I grew up with their kids Mike, Patrick, Anne and Katie. Dave Scott and his wife, Lurton, were cattycorner to us. Tracy Scott was my little sister’s best friend, and I remember watching Doug Scott ride the bus to school his very first time (it was traumatic). Michael Collins was also cattycorner on the other side. I once helped him catch a squirrel that had bitten his daughter so he could check it for rabies. Gene Cernan lived four houses down from us and the next house over was were a young girl by the name of Cheryl Chaffee lived. I was smitten with her in the second grade. The day her father died I never saw her again. Rusty Schweickart lived across the street from them. I went to school with his daughter, Vicki. Further down the street was Buzz Aldrin. His son, Andy, was best friends with one of my brothers. By the lake lived Charles Basset and close to him was Al and Sue Bean. We motor-biked the peninsula with their son, Clay. I even used to babysit Dr. Joe and Bonnie Allen’s adopted son, David.
They were all great guys.
If anything...the Media would just love to report on the existence of E.T. It would challenge (at least in their minds) the belief many conservative Christians have.
I am probably roughly your age. The space program was always something that people seemed to be in awe of at the time.
“than at least two men who were professional space explorers?”
So, on that basis, if more than two former astronauts say visits from outer space are impossible then it would disprove it, correct? Several astronauts, when asked, said that the laws of physics made visits from even the nearest star an impossibility. Even approaching the speed of light, it would take them hundreds of years. So, I guess that settles it.
“I’ve talked to the researchers face to face. Their research was solidly and scrupulously scientific.”
Where was it published. Who did the peer review? Who paid for the research? Where are the materials they researched? In order to do “scientific” research there must be tangible evidence, not eyewitness accounts. Where do those pieces of evidence reside?
I know, these are tough questions which you will deflect with your usual type II error stuff. Does it never occur to you that if there was in fact scientific evidence it would be of huge significance to the community and would appear on the cover of every scientific journal in the country? Oh, sorry, I forgot about that damned conspiracy which keeps it all covered up, except for a few the nitwits and their goofy websites.
Well said yazoo. You said what I’ve been trying to say.
I had a scientist buddy at Boeing who believed that a close encounter with a planet could make the Earth stop revolving per the ancient stories that said the Sun stopped its travel for some period of time. I pointed out that the energy required would melt the crust and popped his bubble.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.