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1 posted on 07/26/2009 5:55:44 AM PDT by decimon
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To: decimon

Attacking Stalingrad instead of going after the oil fields was a biggie


2 posted on 07/26/2009 5:58:50 AM PDT by GeronL (Guilty of the crime of deviationism.)
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To: decimon

Uh, is it just me or is this pretty much obvious?

Hitler should have just had summer weather that winter.


3 posted on 07/26/2009 5:59:09 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: decimon

I read a very interesting book that theorized Hitler attacked Stalin because Stalin was about to attack him. The Germans did not have the luxury of choosing the date.


4 posted on 07/26/2009 6:00:37 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: decimon
Adolf's biggie was canceling his non aggression pact with Stalin...it did many things...it turned American leftist against Hitler, while before they put up with the ally of their lord a master Uncle Joe Stalin...and the real biggie was that Hitler now had to fight 2 fronts.

He would have eventually beaten Britain...America would have stayed out of hitlers hair...and afterward he could have taken Soviet Russia at his leisure. No it was Hitlers massive ignorance of battle tactics that lost him the war...not clothing.

7 posted on 07/26/2009 6:06:53 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: decimon

8 posted on 07/26/2009 6:07:02 AM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet)
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To: decimon

Once again, the importance of dressing for success.


9 posted on 07/26/2009 6:08:20 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: decimon

I think being ill-equipped in the dead of winter after years of war have torn apart the continent is a good example of a ghastly winter condition.


11 posted on 07/26/2009 6:11:36 AM PDT by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: decimon

Kind of a chicken versus egg analysis. Hitler’s troops were unprepared for winter and lacked proper clothing or equipment. Russian winters are typically brutal. I could kind of see it both ways.


14 posted on 07/26/2009 6:16:48 AM PDT by The Great RJ ("The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." M. Thatcher)
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To: decimon

Hitler’s biggest mistake was in attacking the Jews.

Jewish people were German patriots and his brain trust. They would have fought and worked for him. Instead they were rounded up and slaughtered.

No one can blame any one thing for the loss of a war, it takes many things working as a chain. Each link in the chain adds to the loss.

I often wonder what would have happened in Europe had Japan not attacked the US. Suppose Japan instead of attacking the US had gone to meet Hitlers Armies with their seapower and transported them across the Channel?


15 posted on 07/26/2009 6:16:57 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: decimon
It was not just the absence of proper winter clothing, it was the length of the winter as well as the severity of it; it was the depth of the snow and the depth of the mud; it was the attenuated supply lines which ran through 1000 miles of territory made hostile by the local populations who became partisan in reaction to Hitler's brutal occupation policies; it was the wider treads on the Soviet tanks and vehicles which could better negotiate in the snow and mud; it was the unanticipated immense industrial capacity of Russia which came increasingly into play; it was the great disparity in numbers enjoyed by the Russians; it was that the Germans had to fight a three front war; it was the sheer brutality of the Soviets to their own forces as well as the Germans and an infinite capacity to absorb casualties.


18 posted on 07/26/2009 6:24:40 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: decimon
...British historian Andrew Roberts has claimed in a new book -- The Storm of War -- that wrong clothing and not ghastly wintry conditions led to Germany's defeat in Russia in 1941...

Sorry Mr. Roberts, but it WAS the wintry conditions that led to the defeat. Had it NOT been for the wintry conditions the German's "wrong" clothing would have been ok. Sheesh.

22 posted on 07/26/2009 6:36:38 AM PDT by FReepaholic (Jump You F**kers!)
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To: decimon

Like saying that it was the lack of an oven mitt and not the hot pan that burned you.

Germany started the campaign 2 months late due to Italy’s blunder in Yugoslavia and Greece. What was left was an impossible time line.

The winters of the early 40’s were much, much colder than average.

German uniforms and other supplies did not count on a winter campaign or a protracted campaign of any kind.

Hitler refused to hold up the attack and allow his generals to choose good defensive ground.


24 posted on 07/26/2009 6:38:27 AM PDT by SampleMan (Socialism enslaves you & kills your soul.)
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To: decimon

>>>>”wrong clothing..... not winter”>

?????????

That is nonsensical!


26 posted on 07/26/2009 6:46:11 AM PDT by Ditter
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To: decimon

Hitler should have waited for Global Warming before attacking.


27 posted on 07/26/2009 6:47:13 AM PDT by Codeflier (We just had 8 more years of a democrat president in office, we already know what happens!)
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To: decimon
New book says wrong clothing, not winter led to Hitler's 1941 defeat in Russia

Sounds like British historian Andrew Roberts is a bit of an idiot.

If the winter was not a factor, why in the world would Roberts claim they needed "woollen hats, gloves, long johns and overcoats?"

Sheesh.

35 posted on 07/26/2009 7:32:02 AM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: decimon

Hitler’s biggest mistake was being a murdering fascist dictator. Using meth daily was also not a great idea.


39 posted on 07/26/2009 7:47:06 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: decimon
I have never seen any authoritative, scholarly reference, validation for my very own personal deduction that it was Mussolini's ill-fated military campaign in the Balkans, forcing Hitler to postpone the Russian timetable from early April, 1941 to late June in order to secure the Balkans, in effectively having Germany lose the Soviet campaign and the war itself.

Had Hitler launched Operation Barbarossa n April, 1941 as initially planned, the crucial months of fighting would have taken place when the weather would not have been the disastrously mitigating factor in Germany's defeat. The Germans were forced to fight in the worst winter in a hundred years, the cold so fierce to have caused fatal rupture of the intestines when soldiers' relieving themselves.

http://www.worldwar2database.com/html/greece.htm
Italy was at once awed and jealous of the German successes in 1940, and Mussolini declared war on Britain and France on June 10. Stagnated in France until the German victory, the Italians looked to the Southeast for something they could claim as their own prize. 200,000 Italian soldiers attacked Greece from Italian Albania on October 28, 1940. The Greek Army proved much tougher than Mussolini or his generals expected. Not only was the Italian advance smashed, the Italians were expelled from Greece and driven back to Albania . Hitler was furious; Mussolini had not bothered to inform him of the invasion. As Hitler planned to attack the Soviet Union in the Spring of 1941, the Italian advance had left his southern flank critically exposed. Now he had to postpone the Russian timetable in order to secure the Balkans. Hitler’s forces attacked Greece and Yugoslavia on April 6, 1941. The Metaxas Line, fortresses on the Greek-Bulgarian border, stopped the Germans until Yugoslavia fell on April 17. Then the Germans could move into Greece from Yugoslavia and surrounded the Greek positions. Hitler still had to shift forces preparing for the invasion of Russia to collapse the Greek Resistance. The whole Peloponnesian peninsula was overrun and Athens fell on April 27.

43 posted on 07/26/2009 8:14:35 AM PDT by lbryce (Obama Notwithstanding, America's Best Days Are Yet To Be .)
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To: decimon

That strikes me as a distinction without a difference.


54 posted on 07/26/2009 8:53:24 AM PDT by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: decimon

Every war has a lot of what-ifs. So what if Stalin hadn’t murdered large numbers of top-flight officers, like Tukashevski, before the war? What if Stalin had listened to Richard Sorge, his top foreign spy, and properly prepared himself for the invasion? When you get into the game of what-ifs, you have to include everything.


62 posted on 07/26/2009 11:34:54 AM PDT by driftless2 (for long term happiness, learn how to play the accordion)
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To: decimon

Our troops had the same problem in the winter of 44-45.


63 posted on 07/26/2009 12:19:20 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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