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Targeting Lost Causers
Old Virginia Blog ^ | 06/09/2009 | Richard Williams

Posted on 06/09/2009 8:47:35 AM PDT by Davy Buck

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To: BroJoeK
American understood that when the war was over the Union would be preserved and slavery abolished.

Americans? I would say that in 1861 every southerner would have said cram your Union. The fearless leader of the Yankees, the Illinois Butcher™, stated he would have prevented the war if he could by freeing none of the slaves. No, in my opinion, the war of Northern aggression was simply a naked act of Federal power over sovereign states. Since slavery is not an issue anymore, what justification would the Feds use to crush a seceding state(s) now?

241 posted on 06/15/2009 4:54:23 AM PDT by central_va (www.15thVirginia.org Co. C, Patrick Henry Rifles)
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To: Ditto
Nonsense. Even with 50 states today, 15 slave states could block any amendment to end slavery.

Nonsense - those states ratified an amendment to end slavery.

242 posted on 06/15/2009 5:14:54 AM PDT by 4CJ (Annoy a liberal, honour Christians and our gallant Confederate dead)
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To: 4CJ
Doing time travel again? Those states only “ratified” after the war under Reconstruction governments — you know, the Carpet Baggers and Scallywags you love to hate.
243 posted on 06/15/2009 7:00:52 AM PDT by Ditto
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To: Non-Sequitur
in other words, you HAVE a copy of the book & COULD post the page where Blackerby said that 100,00-150,000 Blacks served in the CSA forces, but you CHOOSE to continue to LIE about it???

YEP, that's the TRUTH, which will be revealed to everyone. i also note that you never told everyone WHICH weak/stupid/SELF-servinging excuse that you will try to "get your tail of of the crack" that you put it in with your LIES.

laughing AT you, as everyone soon WILL.

free dixie,sw

244 posted on 06/15/2009 8:31:00 AM PDT by stand watie (Thus saith the Lord of Hosts, LET MY PEOPLE GO.)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo; All
"Roo" i wouldn't deny that there are WORSE bigots elsewhere on the "worldwidewierd" than the most extreme of the DAMNyankees on FR. nonetheless, FR seems to be 'blessed with" a FEW real lunatics, fools,south-HATERS & at least one outright RACIST.

may i also remind you that about TWO DOZEN of the former members of "The DAMNyankee Coven" have been PERMANENTLY BANNED for their crazed antics, general all-around HATEfulness & bigotry???

otoh, the "good 'ole rebs" of FR have lost exactly ONE southeron since i joined FR. that was "nolo chan", who was banned for DIRECTLY QUOTING "DIS-honest abe, the clay-footed plaster saint of DAMnyankeeland" in his OWN words.

free dixie, sw

245 posted on 06/15/2009 9:10:09 AM PDT by stand watie (Thus saith the Lord of Hosts, LET MY PEOPLE GO.)
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To: stand watie
in other words, you HAVE a copy of the book & COULD post the page where Blackerby said that 100,00-150,000 Blacks served in the CSA forces, but you CHOOSE to continue to LIE about it???

All you have to do is tell us what page Blackerby says this on. What I can find in Blackerby is him citing the 1860 census saying that there were only 240,000 free blacks in the whole confederacy.


246 posted on 06/15/2009 9:14:14 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
IF i could remember the page number (it's been several years since i read it), i would certainly post it.

i remember that the 100,00-150,000 number is on the RIGHT side page, at the top of the page & relatively "early" in the book.

free dixie,sw

247 posted on 06/15/2009 9:21:48 AM PDT by stand watie (Thus saith the Lord of Hosts, LET MY PEOPLE GO.)
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To: stand watie
in other words, you HAVE a copy of the book & COULD post the page where Blackerby said that 100,00-150,000 Blacks served in the CSA forces, but you CHOOSE to continue to LIE about it???

In other words I have a copy of the book but am unable to post the page because it doesn't exist. If you're convinced I'm lying then why can't you post the page and prove me wrong? Where's the book, stand waite?

248 posted on 06/15/2009 9:22:05 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: stand watie

Blackerby seems to accept the 240,000 free blacks in the confederate states number without question. Any comment on that?


249 posted on 06/15/2009 9:23:35 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: 4CJ
True, given another 20-30 years with an ever increasing majority the northeast would have political controul of the Union, but Lincoln and his ilk were too impatient to wait, and too eager to despoil and plunder the country.

Had all 15 slave states held together opposing the amendment, it would have taken 46 states to ratify it. Care to do the math?

250 posted on 06/15/2009 9:24:44 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
aren't you getting tired of LOOKING STUPID every time you "re-ask" the SAME dumb question???

in other words, you are a KNOWING LIAR & will (when i get the book from ILL) be HUMILATED, when the TRUTH is posted.

laughing AT you.

free dixie,sw

251 posted on 06/15/2009 9:37:32 AM PDT by stand watie (Thus saith the Lord of Hosts, LET MY PEOPLE GO.)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
i'm not responsible for the number that Blackerby evidently accepted as factual. (as the years pass by, scholars learn more & more.= as you know historical research has improved greatly, especially given the improvements in computers. when i was in grad school, we had BUILDINGS to house computers;the same or more data is today on LAPTOPS!!!)

the census records (flawed though they certainly are),the TAX records,birth records,land titles,tribal records, manumission papers, the various state CSA pension records & many other public records indicate that the 240K number is FAR too LOW.

free dixie,sw

252 posted on 06/15/2009 9:44:45 AM PDT by stand watie (Thus saith the Lord of Hosts, LET MY PEOPLE GO.)
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To: stand watie
aren't you getting tired of LOOKING STUPID every time you "re-ask" the SAME dumb question???

So long as you continue to call me a liar for not posting a page that doesn't exist then I'm going to continue to call you on your lie about ordering the book from the library. If you did order then where is it?

253 posted on 06/15/2009 9:44:53 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
may i once more remind you that the SAME practices that you abhor were COMMONPLACE among the NORTHERN slave-OWNERS, too???

slavery was a hideous evil BUT nobody's hands, north or south, were CLEAN.

free dixie,sw

254 posted on 06/15/2009 9:48:44 AM PDT by stand watie (Thus saith the Lord of Hosts, LET MY PEOPLE GO.)
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To: Non-Sequitur
once more, your QUESTION is STUPID & an ATTEMPT to fool other members of FR with your SELF-serving lies, weak excuses & DAMNyankee PROPAGANDA.

ask me again & look even DUMBER to "real people" (that's persons of NORMAL IQ, which doesn't include most of the "coven".)

to those of you who don't know: it is NOT uncommon for ILL to take 90-180 day, especially given that MANY books are FEW in public collections & do NOT want to risk sending the books out. (N-S is perfectly aware of this FACT.)

free dixie,sw

255 posted on 06/15/2009 9:58:19 AM PDT by stand watie (Thus saith the Lord of Hosts, LET MY PEOPLE GO.)
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To: stand watie
Pure, unadulterated SW BS, start to finish.
256 posted on 06/15/2009 10:09:51 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: 4CJ
Nonsense - those states ratified an amendment to end slavery.

After 4 years of rebellion and once their legislatures had been replaced with Unionists.

257 posted on 06/15/2009 10:38:13 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur; 4CJ
Had all 15 slave states held together opposing the amendment, it would have taken 46 states to ratify it. Care to do the math?

US Constitution, Article V
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

.25X = 15
X = 15 /.25
X = 60

258 posted on 06/15/2009 10:41:29 AM PDT by Ditto
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To: central_va
BJK:"American understood that when the war was over the Union would be preserved and slavery abolished.

central_va: "Americans? I would say that in 1861 every southerner would have said cram your Union. The fearless leader of the Yankees, the Illinois Butcher™, stated he would have prevented the war if he could by freeing none of the slaves. No, in my opinion, the war of Northern aggression was simply a naked act of Federal power over sovereign states. Since slavery is not an issue anymore, what justification would the Feds use to crush a seceding state(s) now? "

Americans? The majority of Americans then lived in the northern states.

The South seceded to prevent the possibility of slavery's abolition. But secession did not start the Civil War -- the South firing on Fort Sumter did.

Once war began, the North's goals were first restoring the Union, later abolishing slavery.

On your final question, I'd say the issue of succession was settled in the Civil War, along with slavery.

259 posted on 06/15/2009 10:50:34 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: stand watie
Yeah, we know that you don't accept the 1860 census numbers and that the number of free blacks in the south is completely unknowable and unguessable, but how do you suppose Blackerby is able to say with a straight face that, in effect that out of 240,000 free blacks, 150,000 of them served in the confederate army?

Unless, of course, he never says that. Or he's including slaves in the total. Certainly large numbers of slaves accompanied their masters or were hired out to build fortifications, etc.

For example, I can find, on page 6, where Blackerby says that "While Negroes, both slave and free, were engaged on the Confederate side, their usefulness was constantly limited by the question of arming them." So is this number you claim in Blackerby counting slaves and free? Is it "served IN the Confederate army" or "SERVED the Confederate army"?

260 posted on 06/15/2009 10:59:53 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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