High-Def Cables Get Smarter

businessweek.com ^ | May 28, 2009 | Cliff Edwards

[Las Vegas Dave]

More information for you (from 2007):

Last Monday, Brian and I had a chance to run down to Monster HQ in Brisbane, CA to run some tests for the HDMI Cable Battlemodo.

This time, we brought along a bag full of awesomely priced cables, mostly from Monoprice, that we were ready to run bandwidth tests on, side-by-side with Monster’s finest (and most damned expensive) cables.

What were our findings?

1) At short distances up to 6ft (2 meters), you can pretty much get away with any cable. Monoprice cables kicked ass at the 6 foot length that mostly everyone uses.

Not all cables are the same, however, and in truth, it’s the medium-priced cables that may be the real rip-off.

2) At longer distances, cheaper cable tends to choke up. A 720p signal will make it, but even today’s standard 1080p signal can fry out inside of a long cable that isn’t built as well. If you are trying to hook up a 1080p projector on your ceiling to a Blu-ray or HD DVD player, this is a concern.

The tests, which fired digital signal through the cable to synthesize high-definition video, can be divided into REAL-WORLD requirements (720p and 8-bit 60Hz 1080p) and FUTURE-WORLD requirements (12-bit 60Hz 1080p and even 12-bit 120Hz 1080p). Mind you, the future formats don’t exist now, so they should only be a concern when you are buying cables you intend to keep for five years, such as those you want to build into a wall.

OK, you got the results, now, don’t you want to see how the test was done, and see what we saw?

Look at the pic above. The box on the left is an Anritsu Pulse Pattern Generator. To simulate high-def video, it sends signal down one of three paths within an HDMI cable, so its signal at any given time is ONE-THIRD the bandwidth of that video format. The list of bandwidth tests we ran is as follows:

REAL WORLD
• 720p 8-bit 60Hz = 742 Mbps (x3)
• 1080p 8-bit 60Hz = 1.65 Gbps (x3)

FUTURE WORLD
• 1080p 12-bit 120Hz = 4.455 Gbps (x3)
• 1440p 12-bit 120Hz = 8.24 Gbps (x3)

When the signal was sent out over the cable, its performance was measured on a Tektronix DSA8200 Digital Serial Analyzer. The argument goes like this: it may all be 1’s and 0’s, but what is being sent over that cable is electric current. When too much data is sent over a shabby cable, the device on the other end can’t tell what is a 1 and what is a 0. The end result is video that is either jittery, full of digital snow, or flat-out not there.

The Tektronix display shows two arcs, a high ridge that stands for the 1’s and a low ridge that stands for the 0’s. As bandwidth increases, you will see that the arcs get fuzzier, and at the failure point, there are too many 1’s that look like 0’s, and vice versa.

Bear in mind, in some cases, if the cable failed at one level, we didn’t go on to the next. Likewise, if we knew it passed the higher test, we might not go on to a lower test.

Monster Cable 2-meter ($120)

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hdmi-cable-battlemodo/the-truth-about-monster-cable-part-2-268788.php

[Las Vegas Ron]

Wow, thank you so much for all of the information, Dave.

I was in the market about a month ago for a larger HDTV. Sears had the Samsung 46" for about $1,300. Well after a day or so of kicking it around I went back to by it and while talking to the sales guy I happen to see the Sony Bravia 46" except it was 120 HZ and about the same price as the Samsung, 60 Hz

The picture on the Samsung is just a little bit better when compared side by side but I figured I wouldn't be able to tell after I got it home and nothing to compare to.

I was wondering about the cable though because the Blue Ray movies I've rented and played just don't seem seem to be as good as they should be, at least not compared to what I saw demonstrated at the store.

Anyway I bought the MONSTER 1000HD HDMI (Model No: MC 1000HD-2M) on eBay for $35.00, I'll hope that it makes a difference.

Thanks again Dave....Ron

[Citizen of the Savage Nation]

I'm an engineer (not EE), and every engineer I've talked to that knows more than I do says these overpriced cables are not worth it. I've had Monster cables before and cannot tell the difference.

Maybe someone else has another opinion, but that's all I hear, 100% of the time.

[Citizen of the Savage Nation]

OK, nice info and makes sense. I’m thinking 6 ft is sufficient for most people, but if it’s not for you, maybe you need to invest in the cable.

[Citizen of the Savage Nation]

I was in the market about a month ago for a larger HDTV. Sears had the Samsung 46" for about $1,300.

Was it the 650 series? I was able to get the 46" 630 version, 120Hz, open box at Best Buy for $1100 in December. At the time it was $150 under the regular price. Took a chance and haven't been disappointed. Didn't want to pay extra for the 650, not sure how much better it is.

[Las Vegas Ron]

It's the KDL-46V5100, not sure what series it is.

It was $400.00 off with the sale price....I figured it was worth it because it is the 120 Hz vs Samsung 60 Hz for the same price.

I'm more than happy with it.

[Las Vegas Ron]

I goofed, I paid $1,400.00 for it

[Citizen of the Savage Nation]

That’s all that matters. I can’t imagine why my set was returned, the only thing I can think of is that the Touch of Color that it’s supposed to have seems non-existent. Big deal, a aesthetic flaw so what...set performs flawlessly and I saved $150+tax.

[Hootowl99]

...”can’t remember the name of the British speakers, the best”...

The best British speakers?

I certainly can’t claim to know the best but trust me, these Scottish speakers by Linn are very very sweet.

http://www.linn.co.uk/music_systems_loudspeakers

[gonzo]

Thanks, Dave .............. FRegards

[Las Vegas Dave]

I just saw a report on blu-ray players the other day, I don't recall which magazine, BUT some players did poorly well others excelled. Which make and model do you have? (BTW: Have you bought new blu-ray DVD’s? If so, do they perform better than the rentals?)

Later today I'll dig into my magazines and report back.

[Vinnie]

At the time , circa '60s, Warfedales were very highly thought of.

I had a friend that had a Marantz, Ampex setup. Tube type unit.
I was amazed at the lack of dials, buttons and doodads on the front panel of the Marantz but oh, was it sweet.

[Vinnie]

I’m jonesing for a Samsung LED HDTV, 50”+. Phenomenal picture.
Hoping that in a few months the price will come down.

[Future Snake Eater]

Thank you! All the wailing and knashing of teeth on this thread is ridiculous!!!

Old HDMI always works with new HDMI. You need Ethernet connectivity for your particular piece of gear? Then keep what you have. Plug your 1.3/1.3a (or older) HDMI cable into the HDMI 1.4 slot and enjoy. It couldn’t be any simpler.

And, yes, if you buy Monster Cable, you’re a sucker. Monoprice 4 life!!

[Las Vegas Ron]

I bought the Sony BDP S350, it plays standard DVD's, up scales them to 1080P and I use an Optic cable for audio. The picture quality is much better than what I was used to with my last player.

I haven't bought any BRD's yet, just have rented them. I do notice in some scenes the HD really shines through, other times not so much. You have probably seen in the beginning of the movies the set of gears turning and meshing they show, I guess that's a trade mark for Blue Ray or something because every movie so far has shown it, but that part looks awesome.

Anyway, is there a difference in quality of rental BRD's vs. ones you buy? I figure there may be because the rental ones have previews in them and I would assume the ones you buy don't so obviously that would be one difference.

Maybe it's just me, but anything you buy never seems to look the same at home vs. what it looks like in the store

Thanks again for your help.

[gymbeau]

Actually, I’ve been doing some critical listening lately, comparing audio via HDMI and 5.1 analog cables for DVD-A and SACD listening. Using a couple of good Oppo players, the audio is far richer, with a lot more oomph, via analog. HDMI works far better for Dolby TrueHD and dts Master Audio, though. And for video, of course.

So don’t throw away those cables yet!

And wouldn’t it figure they introduce HDMI 1.4 two days after my Gefen HDMI 1.3 switcher arrives!

Cheers
Jim

[Hootowl99]

I'm familiar with the Warfedale name but have never had the opportunity to listen to them. Yep, Marantz’s back when were a big box with very few knobs and nice performance for sure.

My first receiever while broke and in college was a 2 or 3 year old Kenwood that I bought from a friend of a friend that got it at the PX in Viet Nam. It was a Japanese model and have no idea what the specs on it were. Best speakers I matched to it were some Advents. Some friends of mine in college had their McIntosh paired up with some washing machine sized JBL speakers. Something went out on the McIntosh so I hauled the Kenwood to their place for a party. I had to drive the Kenwood so hard to get a bit of volume out of those monster JBLs that the Kenwood was in borderline distortion plus didn't have any headroom left to really make the music jump out.

I have a Sony ES receiver now that is in the fuzzy grey zone between consumer grade and audiophile grade gear. I had it mated with some 20-year old Infinity Reference series speaker that my son managed to blow listening to crap rap music and over driving the base. The woofers are sealed (not ported) and were awesome for everything except over driven base.

[Vinnie]

My receiver now in an Onkyo. My Sony lost the rear speaker output.
It’s mated to 2 floor mount JBLs, 2 bookcase JBLs, a magnetic shielded center JBL and a Sony powered subwoofer.

Sounds pretty good. But honestly I use it for DVDs 95% of the time.

Every once in a while I throw in some Wagner, Tchaikovsky[, Patrick O’Hearn and others.