The Great Pit Bull Debate

Los Angeles Examiner ^

[Badeye]

True, but that can be done with any breed of dog.

Meanest dog breed I’ve every come across are poodles. Snap happy, bi polar breed in my honest opinion.

[mom4melody]

I don’t dispute these facts. What breed is TRAINED most often to fight and attack? Pits and Rotts.

Now, I know people killed by a horse kick, gored by a bulls horn, and other assorted farm animal induced injuries. So should we not have livestock on farms?

People need to be educated and aware and in control of their pets/livestock to the best of their ability. There will always be instances of animal attacks. Just like there are instances of serial killers, drive by shootings and road rage amoung the humans.

[Badeye]

I agree with the ‘not in condo’s, or apartments’ piece of your post, and the ‘exotic’ animals you list.

That said, you’ve never had a Rott obviously, nor seen how they are around kids. If you did, and you had a kid, you’d seriously consider one.

Trust me, nobody screws with the kid that has a Rott as its best friend.

Ever. They aren’t ‘mean’ just real alert. Til you put your hand on the child...then they explain in a low voice ‘You do understand I’m a Rott, and the child is with me, doncha?” as only that breed can.

Its very similiar to the effect one gets when you ‘rack the slide’ on a 870 pump shotgun in the middle of the night when an intruder is in your home. Everybody that hears it understands clearly somebody’s dying in the next few seconds if the ‘intruder’ doesn’t stop.

My Rott will lick you to death, love on you forever if I let her. But put your hand on my should, even at age 13 (very old for the breed) she’ll come up off the floor, bark once (all conversation stops when this happens...come to think of it so does movement) and just look at you with the question ‘Are you really an insane human? I’ve heard of your kind...’

Best damn dog I’ve ever owned, and I say that with fifty years of experience, more or less.

[Badeye]

Sorry you had that experience. Personally, even though they are in fact good with kids, you don’t let a three year old ‘play’ with such a animal.

Hell, I wouldn’t let a three year old play with a cat.

[Ditter]

Any breed can produce a mean dog. The meanest dog I ever had was a 15 lb Jack Russel. I got him when he was 6 weeks old and he was raised gently with nothing but love and good treatment. He was a mean untrustworthy biter, probably his entire litter was the same. I finally had him put to sleep at 14 years after he bit me twice in 2 weeks. I suspect a pitt puppy from a fighting strain would be the same as my JRT, only able to do a lot more damage.

[mom4melody]

You just described my daughters Pit - lick you to death, just don’t tough the babies in the house without permission.

[mom4melody]

tough = touch.

Duh!

[Badeye]

‘One of many reasons I suspect any animal owner who thinks their pet wouldn’t hurt a fly, is an irresponsible owner’

Great point. I know any of our dogs will attack if seriously provoked. The Rott, the yellow lab, the small mix breed we call ‘warpig’ in jest...dogs are pack animals, and you are the Alpha Male in their lives. Attack the Alpha, meet the packs response.
Its always ‘on the owner’. Which is why we have a large split rail dog wire lined yard, and when we take them out for a walk they are always on a long leash, even though we are in a remote rural county with more cattle than humans, and more horses than sports cars.

[seatrout]

—Meanest dog breed I’ve every come across are poodles. Snap happy, bi polar breed in my honest opinion.—

Lousy breeding (by “mills” for example) can do that. An uncle of mine had a poodle that was fiercely possessive of objects. If any of my dogs snapped at me when I took something from them, they’d get a one way trip to the vet (if they were lucky). Cocker spaniels and chows were notorious bad tempers; again, due to indiscriminate breeding.

[Badeye]

That list accepts the description ‘pit bull’ without question, which is why many disregard it.

Just an FYI, not an attack on you. The AKC can’t make up its pea brain about it.

[oldenuff2no]

Chett, to put it bluntly you are full of BS.
I am a long time handler and trainer of military dogs, stock dogs, bomb dogs, dope dogs ect.
Lets start with a border collie. They have been bred for hundreds of years to work livestock only that's not quite the whole story. A border collie has an instinctual drive to work anything that moves, livestock, ducks, or even children. The pro stock dog trainers sort their pups by watching how they work a “herd of ducks” when the pup is only a couple months old. It is all about instinct, not training or about a loving home. The pup has been bred to work and will do so no matter what!!!!! It's called instinct and it can be demonstrated and clearly identified.
Now lets talk about pit bulls. They have been bred to “bite and fight” for the last few hundred years. This instinct has been selectively bred into the pitts and there is nothing that you or any other owner can do to take it out. Behavior can be modified to any extreme but no person is capable of removing instinctual predisposition from any animal. The belief that one is capable of that ability is pure arrogance.
I know few border collies that don't normally work anything but I have never found a single one that I could not get to work on some level. Even if not displayed every day the instinct to work is always there at some level and can be triggered.
Pitts are the same way. The most dangerous Pit Bull is one that is owned by an idiot who refuses to admit what his dog has been biologically designed and bred to do.
All the numbers clearly show that the pit bull has the number one spot for attacks on humans, attacks on kids, and attacks that end in the death of a child. That is just the truth and will remain the truth no matter what you say or want to believe. Those are very real and true statistics. I have testified several times in dog attack cases as an expert in dog aggression. I've looked at more pictures and analyzed more attack situations than you can imagine. You have no idea how much damage a pitt or two can do to a human body in a short amount of time. You have no clue just how quickly they can kill a small child. I have a question for you. Why do you want or need a dog that has been bred to bite and fight and has a history of doing exactly that? Is there no other breed of dog that wouldn't work better for your needs? The vast majority of pitt attacks on people have nothing to do with the dogs home environment and everything to do with a trigger that jump started the instinct to attack. I know several vets who openly ask why these dogs are allowed to breed and perpetuate these instincts.

[Badeye]

I understand what you are saying. I’ve been lucky most of the time in that respect, the exception being our beloved Lucy, who we mourn to this day, and always will.

[Badeye]

‘Lousy breeding (by “mills” for example) can do that. An uncle of mine had a poodle that was fiercely possessive of objects. If any of my dogs snapped at me when I took something from them, they’d get a one way trip to the vet (if they were lucky). Cocker spaniels and chows were notorious bad tempers; again, due to indiscriminate breeding.’

Yep. too many breeders out there, thats all I’ll say to that aspect of your post.

My neighbor last month had to shoot a dumped Chow that attacked his harmless Lab mix breed. I wouldn’t own one, and I have decades of experience with dogs, large, medium and small.

[seatrout]

—Just an FYI, not an attack on you. The AKC can’t make up its pea brain about it.—

The AKC recognizes a breed called “American Staffordshire Terrier”. This breed looks a lot like what most people think of as a pitbull, but is probably a much better risk as a pet. I imagine these “amstaffs” get unfair blame for the damage caused by true pitbulls.

[Fawn]

My brothers friend got a rottie as a puppy....took that dog everywhere with him in his truck. Then one ride, when he was about 7,,,he snapped and attacked the owner and ripped up his arm while driving. The dog was destroyed.

[Badeye]

You want a reply from Chett, or me?

[Badeye]

Yes...but if you wait ten minutes, the AKC will change its mind again...(chuckle)

[seatrout]

Neighbors had a rottie; she was a sweet girl. Then one day she wasn’t around. Turns out she got agressive (and these people had a little girl in the house). Fortunately no one was hurt AFAIK, but the dog was put down.

[Badeye]

Large dogs cause large problems on occasion, no denying it. But the devil is in the details as they say, and I’d have to know a lot more about the specifics in the incident you related here.

I can only say my Rott/Shepard mix has been magnficent in all aspects. Then again, I recognize she’s a ‘work dog’ and treat her as such. She’s not ‘cuddly’ except with me, for exmaple.

Irks my wife a tad....(chuckle)

[CommerceComet]

Meanest dog breed I’ve every come across are poodles.

I thought you said there were no vicious breeds.

We've had this conversation before. I took up your challenge then and I asked my vet. He said that there are definitely breeds which are much more likely to attack with little or no provocation and less likely to break off the attack once it starts. Although he was generally opposed to a breed ban, he said that there are some breeds of dogs that he would hope his neighbors don't get and he wouldn't be that upset if his homeowner's association banned those breeds.