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Why else do you think that socialists equate those two different things? They rhetorically hide behind the word "society" - or, sometimes, "the public sector" - when government is precisely what they mean.

I think we're probably on two different pages. You would agree then that a culture/society/nation has a right, or more accurately, a duty to first identify, codify and ultimately enforce the qualities they feel will maintain or even improve the chances of survival of the group?

I can't argue the point that control freaks, our would-be masters, won't use every means at their disposal to increase their control. Including speaking on behalf of society/government. The term I find most grating, particularly from our domestic socialist enemies is when they presume to speak for Americans. We've all heard it hundreds of times, "Americans want_____________________(fill in government program), or Americans don't want_____________________(fill in the blank again with any private initiative) in their effort to legitimize their claims. Of course their partners in the MSM are masters at legitimizing the false premise. They've had lots of practice; it's their stock in trade.

Bottom line, I doubt we really have a quibble at all...