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The sun only appears to move at 2.1 degrees per 8.3 minutes - it doesn't really move at that rate! It appears to move at that rate because the earth rotates at that rate.

That is correct. It is apparent motion, just like when you are driving and watching the trees go by. That is why I used the statement 'apparent' position. Why don't we define apparent, from the Merriam Webster Dictionary. "1 : open to view : visible 2 : clear or manifest to the understanding 3 : appearing as actual to the eye or mind 4 : having an indefeasible right to succeed to a title or estate 5 : manifest to the senses or mind as real or true on the basis of evidence that may or may not be factually valid — ap·par·ent·ness Listen to the pronunciation of apparentness \-nəs\ noun synonyms apparent , illusory , seeming , ostensible mean not actually being what appearance indicates. apparent suggests appearance to unaided senses that may or may not be borne out by more rigorous examination or greater knowledge (the apparent cause of the accident)."

Now let us look at what I said. I said that the apparent position and the actual position are not the same. Let me change that slightly. The apparent motion and actual motion are not the same. Both statements are synonymous.

Now let us look at what you said again.

The sun only appears to move at 2.1 degrees per 8.3 minutes - it doesn't really move at that rate! It appears to move at that rate because the earth rotates at that rate.

The 'apparent' rate of motion is an illusion (if we are using the sun as our reference point). So you are correct, the Sun only appears to move 2.1 degrees in 8.3 minutes. Which is essentially what I said in the first place. If it appears to be moving and it really isn't, you must be seeing it in a different place than where it actually is.

Said LeGrande: Now let us look at what I said. I said that the apparent position and the actual position are not the same. Let me change that slightly. The apparent motion and actual motion are not the same. Both statements are synonymous.

Give me a break. First you say that breeding and mating are the same thing, then you say that "see" and "appear" are the same thing, and now you're saying that "Apparent motion" is the same as "Apparent position?"

Unbelievable. Motion and position are two different things dude - I don't know what else to say. Didn't you also confuse mass with something? What was that? I don't remember now.

But seriously, position and motion are not the same thing.

And it was apparent position that you said. And if it had just been a little mistake, you'd have said "Oh, I meant motion not position" right away - but you didn't. But, you are welcome to change your views if you learn something new - just tell me what your new view is!

And besides, if you're right then how come not answer my color coded questions? And you still refuse to answer my question of how, considering your past behavour and wrong ideas, how I can logically come to any conclusion other then that you aren't honest?

-Jesse