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To: Augustinian monk; null and void; TaraP

You said — “To that I would say that a real Satan offered Jesus a real kingdom. Ghosts and ufos are false/deceptive spirits.”

Yes, it was a real kingdom in that it exists in the real world with real people and real buildings. Even with that being true, it’s still a false kingdom in that it is built on lies and deception (from Satan and the Antichrist), even though it’s “real” in the sense of being in the physical world.

So, something that comes from false and deceptive spirits — doesn’t mean they are not *real beings* — they are. They are real beings, doing real things in a false and deceptive way, in order to get people to “believe a lie” and not the truth of God.

Now, in regards to your statement up above — “My personal opinion is that these types of demonic apparitions could never happen to the elect. (ghosts, ufos, etc). I hope my theory is true : >0”

Here is where I think you’re wrong in that regard. To say that the elect could never see these things is to say that they don’t really happen in “real life” — but rather, only in the “head” of the deceived. If that were the case, then it could be considered to be what some psychologists say is “mass hysteria” — in that something is only “seen” in someone’s head, as part of this “mass hysteria” that happens with a group of people. If you’re not part of this mass hysteria (i.e., not carried away with it), you can be standing right next to someone and you won’t see what they are seeing — because it’s “just in their head”.

However, I don’t think it’s “just in their head” — but something that is happening in the “physical universe”. And if that is so, then whatever happens in the physical universe can be seen by whomever is there to see it — no matter whether they are of the elect or are a Satanist.

So, the question is, “Are these things happening in the physical universe that we live in?” I think that question should be obvious, that it certainly is.

Just because something is from an evil being and just because one may be “of the elect” doesn’t mean they can’t see what the evil being is doing. For a “real world” example, if you’ve seen the video of the evil Islamic terrorist cutting off the heads of innocent victims — you’ll know that because you’re looking at what an evil being is doing — does not mean you won’t be able to see it (if it’s based on deception and lies and comes from false spirits [which is certainly true of the evil Islamic terrorists...]).

If one is worried that bad things might happen to “one of the elect” from these evil beings, I would say, “that depends”. It depends on the protection of God over that individual. Nothing happens without God’s permission, anyway. God may allow certain things to happen, just like Jesus said to Peter that Satan was granted permission to test him. Those sorts of things may happen. However, I believe that God does protect His own, and nothing happens to them without His express will or permissive will (in either case). Pray for your protection and God will grant your protection (people have to be reminded, though, that a lot of this also depends upon the person in honoring God and following His will, too...).


47 posted on 01/15/2009 1:01:39 PM PST by Star Traveler
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To: Star Traveler
n that something is only “seen” in someone’s head, as part of this “mass hysteria” that happens with a group of people. If you’re not part of this mass hysteria (i.e., not carried away with it), you can be standing right next to someone and you won’t see what they are seeing — because it’s “just in their head”.

I suppose. I don't see 0bama as a living god, for example.

56 posted on 01/15/2009 1:13:25 PM PST by null and void (Hey 0bama, now that you've caught the car, what are you going to do with it, hmmm?)
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To: Star Traveler

“Yes, it was a real kingdom in that it exists in the real world with real people and real buildings. Even with that being true, it’s still a false kingdom in that it is built on lies and deception (from Satan and the Antichrist), even though it’s “real” in the sense of being in the physical world.”

Well, Satan must of been able to deliver the goods or it would not have been a real temptation. If Jesus knows it all lies and deceptions why be tempted?

As to your other points, based on the information I have read regarding these things (ghosts, ufos) without fail, it seems people who testify about their experience are non-christians or very unorthodox in their beliefs. Also, these people are usually involved with the occult.


59 posted on 01/15/2009 1:17:47 PM PST by Augustinian monk ("Can't we try bombing them with kindness?")
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