[steve-b]

Simple. We need only go back to your own statement:

Do you believe that any act exists which is just outright wrong, anywhere on the world at any time in history?

Now, one of these three statements is true:

1. "Ethnic cleansing" is wrong today and was wrong at the time of Joshua's conquest of Caanan.

2. "Ethnic cleansing" is right today and was right at the time of Joshua's conquest of Caanan.

3. There is no such thing as immutable "right" and "wrong".

Pick one.

[mrjesse]

Simple. We need only go back to your own statement:

Said mrjesse: Do you believe that any act exists which is just outright wrong, anywhere on the world at any time in history?

Now, one of these three statements is true:

1. "Ethnic cleansing" is wrong today and was wrong at the time of Joshua's conquest of Caanan.

2. "Ethnic cleansing" is right today and was right at the time of Joshua's conquest of Caanan.

3. There is no such thing as immutable "right" and "wrong".

Pick one.

You'd be right if one assumes that there is no such thing as God. Of course if you assume there is no supreme moral lawgiver, then you're stuck with options 2 or 3 anyway. By the way, I like your clear succinct logic, even if it is slightly lacking in detail. In any case, if one grants that there is God, then there is a 4th option:

4. If God said don't do something, it's wrong. If God says go do it, it's not wrong.

Just like in our society it is illegal to murder people, and yet the punishment for certain crimes (such as murder of innocent) results in the legal killing of the perp, so also in God's economy certain acts deserve death as punishment. So if God says it's wrong to murder, then murder is universally wrong. But that does not prevent God from rightly executing punishment on people or even whole nations. Sometimes God used Joshua's army as you mentioned, and sometimes he just hit'em with fire and brimstone as he did in Sodom and Gamorah.

The difference between ethnic cleansing now and the total destruction of a nation at God's command is that God is (per the Bible) the supreme moral lawgiver and has the right to set the rules and punish as he pleases those who disobey his rules.

So as you can see not only (as I said before) does the existence of right and wrong beyond right makes right require the existence of universal right and wrong which requires the existence of a universal moral lawgiver, you can also see that the required universal supreme moral lawgiver then (assuming he exists) has the power to decide what is right and what is wrong by his own ideas alone, and also has the right to enforce his rules.

I most certainly do believe God exists, but that's not my point here. My point here is that his existence is logically workable, and it is the only way that such a thing as wrong can exist beyond might makes right. (And actually, even God's ability to determine for all the world what is right and wrong is a form of right makes might - but it's God's might, and it trumps all of mans might put together, and so it is therefore universal.)

So let me ask you this: Do you believe that there is any act that is universally wrong?

Thanks,

-Jesse

[mrjesse]

Simple. We need only go back to your own statement:

Said mrjesse: Do you believe that any act exists which is just outright wrong, anywhere on the world at any time in history?

Now, one of these three statements is true:

1. "Ethnic cleansing" is wrong today and was wrong at the time of Joshua's conquest of Caanan.

2. "Ethnic cleansing" is right today and was right at the time of Joshua's conquest of Caanan.

3. There is no such thing as immutable "right" and "wrong".

Pick one.


By the way, I would love to know which you picked of the above 1,2, or 3 :-)

Thanks,

-Jesse