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To: PhillyChief; Yomin Postelnik; Das Outsider; cmsgop; NonValueAdded; 2ndDivisionVet; Soliton; ...

I have read Mr. Potelnik’s work. However, in
response, I will use a more authoritative source.

“WHERE were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding, who set its measurements? Since you know. Or who stretched the line on it? On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

OR WHO enclosed the sea with doors when, bursting forth, it went out from the womb; when I made a cloud its garment and thick darkness its swaddling band, and I placed boundaries on it and set a bolt and doors, and I said, ‘Thus far you shall come, but no farther; and here shall your proud waves stop’?

HAVE YOU EVER in your life commanded the morning, and caused the dawn to know its place, that it might take hold of the ends of the earth, and the wicked be shaken out of it? It is changed like clay under the seal; and they stand forth like a garment. From the wicked their light is withheld, and the uplifted arm is broken.

HAVE YOU ENTERED into the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses of the deep? Have the gates of death been revealed to you, or have you seen the gates of deep darkness?

HAVE YOU UNDERSTOOD the expanse of the earth? Tell Me, if you know all this. Where is the way to the dwelling of light? And darkness, where is its place, that you may take it to its territory and that you may discern the paths to its home? You know, for you were born then, and the number of your days is great!

HAVE YOU ENTERED the storehouses of the snow, or have you seen the storehouses of the hail, which I have reserved for the time of distress, for the day of war and battle?

WHERE is the way that the light is divided, or the east wind scattered on the earth?

WHO has cleft a channel for the flood, or a way for the thunderbolt, to bring rain on a land without people, on a desert without a man in it, to satisfy the waste and desolate land and to make the seeds of grass to sprout?

HAS THE RAIN A FATHER? Or who has begotten the drops of dew? From whose womb has come the ice? And the frost of heaven, who has given it birth? Water becomes hard like stone, And the surface of the deep is imprisoned.

CAN YOU BIND the chains of the Pleiades, Or loose the cords of Orion?

CAN YOU LEAD forth a constellation in its season, And guide the Bear with her satellites?

DO YOU KNOW the ordinances of the heavens, or fix their rule over the earth?

CAN YOU LIFT up your voice to the clouds, So that an abundance of water will cover you?

CAN YOU SEND forth lightnings that they may go and say to you, ‘Here we are’?

WHO HAS PUT WISDOM in the innermost being Or given understanding to the mind?

WHO CAN COUNT the clouds by wisdom, Or tip the water jars of the heavens, when the dust hardens into a mass And the clods stick together?

CAN YOU HUNT the prey for the lion, Or satisfy the appetite of the young lions, when they crouch in their dens and lie in wait in their lair?

WHO PREPARES for the raven its nourishment when its young cry to God and wander about without food?

JOB 38:4-41


70 posted on 06/18/2008 10:07:24 AM PDT by Jo Nuvark (Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3)
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To: Jo Nuvark

I love that part of Job because it really can put you in your place and humble even the most arrogant person.


72 posted on 06/18/2008 10:17:05 AM PDT by LukeL (Yasser Arafat: "I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize")
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To: Jo Nuvark

The creative principle of the universe is called Brahma in Sanskrit. Brahma, who is depicted as emerging from the navel lotus of Narayana, is a metaphor for all of creation: its laws, its inherent intelligence, and its consciously manifested potencies which operate as sages, saints, rishis, devas, celestials, and divine beings of all kinds of nature, temperament and description. Narayana is the Sanskrit name given in the Upanishads to that which is the sum and substance of all the manifested and unmanifested realms. Narayana is that which is neither created nor destroyed but transcends the creation, life and destruction of the universe. Brahma creates, operates in the form of this universe for trillions of years, then dissolves back into Narayana. Narayana, however, is neither created nor destroyed. Later, another Brahma appears to begin the process again.

Since the term "Brahma" does not appear in the Vedas, its creation stems from the Sanskrit work "Brih" which means "'to grow" or "to expand." In this way, it became synonymous with Hiranyagharba: The Golden Egg of Creation. Growing from the Navel Lotus of Narayana, Brahma is the name for the principle which creates all of the manifest realms. Since the Vedas proclaim in the Purusha Suktam that "three quarters of this universe are in indestructible realms above," then clearly Brahma, with his finite duration, is connected to the realms of the universe which we inhabit which are subject to creation and dissolution.

Brahma was endowed with his "spouse" (Saraswati) and consciousness at the time of creation. Brahma made certain "beings" solely by the power of his mind and thought. These beings are called the mind-born sons of Brahma. The state of their consciousness is summarized by the title Brahma Rishi: Seer with the Understanding of Brahma. Brahma Rishis, in turn, can confer this state of consciousness upon others who prove themselves capable and worthy. For an example of the conferring of the state of Brahma Rishi upon one being by another, see the Story of Vishwamitra in the Chapter on the Gayatri Mantra.

To further understand the concept of Brahma and his relation to the universe as we know it, it is helpful to view the cosmos through the lens of the Vedic descriptions of the life of the universe as interpreted in human years. Here are cycles of time as recorded in the Vedas and Upanishads.

My old story is older than your old story, so mine must be right!

76 posted on 06/18/2008 11:31:54 AM PDT by Soliton (Investigate, educate, then opinionate.)
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