Better 30-30 gun for whitetails: Ruger Mini-30 or Auto Ordnance M1 carbine?

Vanity | 3-8-08 | Me

[Last Dakotan]

These two are comparable in price and probably in performance. Looks like the M1 is about 1-1/2 lb. lighter. Suggestions?

[READINABLUESTATE]

Try a Marlin 336. My father used one for years for whitetails and the occasional elk. Rugged dependable and accurate

Excellent choice, I see the original poster is from South Dakota and I don’t know the laws there but The 30 cal M1 is NOT a legal deer hunting round in Minnesota. The cartrige is too short.

[mamelukesabre]

Polish the bolt face. Debur the firing pin hole. That would be the first things I’d try. Then take a real close look at the extractor. Polish it. Maybe even put a slight bevel on it if you have to. Next, very carefully debur the magazine lips and polish. THen fire about 500 rounds through it using only military hardball ammo. Clean it real good and see if stops jamming. IF it does, but then still jams with hollopoints or softpoints, then you need to look at the chamber/feed ramp.

These are just the basics that work for all firearms in general. I don’t have any special specific knowledge of ruger mini ranch rifles.

Oh, also you should try half full magazine vs full magazine and see if that makes a difference. If it does, then you got a spring problem in your magazine.

[SwankyC]

Thanks for the info. I’ll see what I can do

[Lurker]

I found it just as easy to pick up a used Ishapore Enfield chambered in .308 Winchester

Nice rifles. I bought one, cleaned it up. Then I bought 2 more.

I wish I'd bought 6 of 'em when I had the chance. Fine shooters for $125.00 each.

L

[stuartcr]

I got a Ruger Blackhawk that shoots .30 carbine. It’s really fun, super accurate and has about 6-8in of flame when it fires.

[epow]

My now deceased uncle told me about hunting deer with a .30 carbine during his time in a WWII arial gunnery training camp in TX. He shot two different deer with the carbine from very close range, and both ran off as though they had not been hit. He was an USAAC arial gunnery instructor throughout WWII, and absolutely the best rifle shot and shotgun wing shot by far who I have ever seen in action on the hunting fields or trap/skeet range, so I don't think he missed what he shot at. He blamed it on the carbine's relatively puny cartridge, and that was no doubt a big factor. But I think it probably had just as much to do with the full metal jacket military ball ammo he used. Those two deer no doubt died later from the wounds, but the only ones who benefitted from their carcasses were coyotes and buzzards.

As someone said earlier on the thread, the .30 carbine round is basically similar to an overgrown .32acp pistol cartridge stretched out and more heavily charged with propellant for use in the M1 carbine, which was designed to replace the Colt 1911A1 .45 pistol as the weapon of choice for WWII rear echelon troops such as truck drivers, field mechanics, cooks, or supply dump guards who were not usually involved in combat on the front lines. Moral of my long and boring story, don't buy a .30 carbine for hunting anything larger or tougher than coyotes or other large varmints, and use only soft point commercial ammo for that.

BTW, I have an early-1920s vintage Winchester model 94 in .30 WCF caliber, aka .30-30, with a 26" octagon barrel and it's in very good condition for it's age, or for any age for that matter. I recently found it's twin brother for sale at an asking price higher than I would have to pay for a brand new custom made bolt action target rifle from a prestigious gunsmith, and that's all because of Winchester closing up shop last year and making instant collector's items out of almost all old Winchesters. So if all you want is a good lever rifle for hunting anything east of the Mississippi river, pick up a new or good used Marlin 36 in .30-30 or .35 Remington caliber and you're all set at a reasonable price.

A 336 Marlin is stronger and usually more accurate than a Winchester 94 anyway, or if you don't need as much power as the two deer cartridges offer the slightly smaller Marlin series designed for handgun rounds such as .44 magnum and .357 magnum are adequate for deer at short range with the right hunting ammo, and large varmints at longer range. Either way, I don't think you can go wrong with a Marlin for woods type hunting in the east.

But if you are in the Dakotas as your pen name suggests, you would be much better off with a bolt action rifle in a long range caliber such as the old reliable .270 or one of the new short case medium bore rounds that Winchester recently introduced. BTW, Winchester ammo is made by the Olin Chemical Corporation, and that isn't the same company as the Winchester gun maker that recently went out of business.

[epow]

I wish I'd bought 6 of 'em when I had the chance. Fine shooters for $125.00 each.

I don't mean to ruin your day, but in the late 1950's I used to order surplus .303 SMLEs from the Sears catalog for $9.95 plus $1.50 postage to have them mailed to my door. Of course that was before inflation devalued the dollar into almost nothing compared to then and $1 an hour was the normal starting pay for most jobs in my neck of the woods that didn't require a college degree. I would cut down the forearm wood, reshaped the stock a little to make them look more like a sporting rifle and touched up the metal with cold bluing then resold them for 2 or 3 bucks profit, which I usually used to buy surplus .303 ammo.

An online inflation calculator that I often use says that $9.95 in 1959 equaled $70.76 in today's inflated dollars, so I guess $125 for a .303 Enfield isn't as far out of line as I first thought.

[Last Dakotan]

But if you are in the Dakotas as your pen name suggests, you would be much better off with a bolt action rifle in a long range caliber such as the old reliable .270...

I have one and it works well for distance work, but our territory can vary widely in topography and I was looking for a fast shooter for deer that flush right along side you.

[Lurker]

so I guess $125 for a .303 Enfield isn't as far out of line as I first thought.

These aren't .303 Enfields. They're the Ishapore Arsenal Enfield chambered for 7.62 NATO. While they're unmistakeably SMLE's, they're chambered for a common military cartridge and have no problem digesting commercial .308 ammo.

Enfeild purists turn their noses up at 'em for some reason.

I don't care. They're darn fine shooters for the money. I 'sporterized' one and put the other two away for a rainy day...

L

[epow]

OK, that makes a difference. The Ishapore rifles were made in the Ishapore arsenal in India from better grade modern steel than the old WW1 era Smellies I was buying way back when.

Personally, I wouldn't fire a modern high pressure round like the 7.62 NATO in a rechambered WWI vintage Smellie if you gave me a truckload of them, and believe it or not there are some of those out there. I value my eyes and fingers too much for that. I had an old model '95 Mauser blow a primer on me a few years ago at the range with new commercial 6.5x55 ammo, and the cocking piece blew back and whacked my right thumb like a jackhammer. It almost broke the bone, and my entire thumb turned black and was swollen to the diameter of a lemon for a week or so afterward. After that somewhat less than pleasurable experience I'm now very careful about what I load into any old gun that has had a rough life in the military.

[Lurker]

The Ishapore rifles were made in the Ishapore arsenal in India from better grade modern steel than the old WW1 era Smellies I was buying way back when.

That's them. They've got the Ishapore Arsenal markings on them, all the serial numbers match, and the ones I got weren't dinged up all that badly.

I had my gunsmith take a look at them, check the headspacing and such, and he said they were fine. He said he'd be suprised if any of them had 100 rounds put through them and was pretty sure at least one of them had probably never been fired.

He bought one for himself to play with after he saw mine.

Never heard about those reworks, but it doesn't suprise me. That Enfield action has been reworked for literally dozens of chamberings. It's probably one of the slickest bolts I've ever fired.

After that somewhat less than pleasurable experience I'm now very careful about what I load into any old gun that has had a rough life in the military.

That's a very wise policy. While the Ishapore will most likely eat just about every commercial offering without complaint, I stick to the 168 gr Sierra bullet and move it at fairly sedate velocities; no more than about 2,600 fps or so. That keeps the pressure well within SAAMI tolerances.

Even were something untoward to happen, the SMLE has that little gas pressure relief thingy which should keep the damned thing from blowing up in my face.

But I figure why take the chance...

L

[Brucifer]

It's a Mini-30, and I have a very good Lyman sight installed and held in with Lock Tight.

It's the barrel that's crap. When it heats up the bullets go flying every which way. The problem is that in South Texas it is always hot. I can barely get two bullets to group, and if I get three it's time for a party. God knows where the bullets go after 150 yards.

I have several friends who had their Mini-30 and Mini-14 rifles re-barreled and the rifles were turned into accurate, useful firearms. It's just a shame that you have to spend $500 on a brand new rifle and then toss in at least that much more to make it accurate.

No business for Ruger from me.

[mad_as_he$$]

Before you try a new barrel test to see if the gas port fitting is too tight. A gunsmith can do that fairly quickly. Also have him check the bolt fit. A new barrel does usually solve it but I have seen ones that the throat/bolt fit were so bad ...you get it.

[Smokin' Joe]

My Mini 14 was pretty accurate until I put a muzzle brake on it and that messed with the barrel harmonics or something—couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn until I took the darned thing off and then it was fine again. It is no tackdriver, but then, it isn’t an M1A, either.

[Smokin' Joe]

>30-30 works well here, just most I know who hunt the breaks with it use a lever action. I'm familliar with the territory, and the WInchester Model 70 in .30-06 is my personal favorite for the terrain.

I use a 3X9 with tip off mounts and have iron sights on the rifle for close work where the limited FOV of a scope just doesn't cut it. I like to wait for my shots and harvest where the drag out is minimal, so I use 180 gr core-lokt Remington ammo, and don't track as a result, just go pick them up.

If you really want a semi-auto for the breaks, the SKS will do the job on whitetail and muleys in the draws, but I would not want to count on it for 300+ yd shots from butte to butte.

Hand pick the rifle if you go that route, try it with different ammo and use what shoots best. You might want to try more than one, but East German, Soviet, and the early Chinese ones have been the better ones I have shot. Just my $0.02. YMMV

On more thing, magazine capacity was not a problem here last time I checked with the FWS guys, you can lug around as many as you can stuff in the magazine, and a drum mag if you want to. I was settling a bet at the time, but I could just about hear his disdain for anyone who would need more than three rounds to bag his deer.

That may have changed, so I'd check with them again just to make sure you are legal. Good Huntin'!

[Smokin' Joe]

I do recall only loading 27 rounds in a 30 round magazine, 18 in a 20, to keep from getting feed problems, but those were aftermarket magazines, and not Ruger.

[Copernicus]

Nice rifles. I bought one, cleaned it up. Then I bought 2 more.

I have been well pleased with mine. It came packed in cosmoline.

Best regards,

[Copernicus]

I’ll give you several. A catalog for speer rifle bullets...any one will do

With regret, I am completely lost.

I will restate the facts as I know them and that will be about as much as I can do.

I own an Ishapore Enfield chambered in (American).308 Winchester (7.62 Nato) whose projectile(bullet) diameter is .308

I understand the British .303 projectile (bullet) is .311 diameter and cannot be fired in my rifle.

That said, in the Speer Reloading Manual for Rifle and Pistol #12 in addition to the .311 diameter projectiles (bullets) to be loaded into the .303 British case, there is also a propriatory projectile(bullet)- the Speer Plinker(tm) in diameter .308 on page 330 also to be loaded into the .303 British brass case.

I am unable to find any rifle projectile (bullet) diameters in .309 or .312

Those diameters (.309 and .312) seem to be considered pistol calibers and are listed under 32 S&W Long, 32 H&R Magnum etc.

I have no explanation for any of this, I state the facts as they exist in my corner of the universe and as they can be found in the Wikipedia Article on Caliber.

Best regards,

[Lurker]

Enjoyed your homepage.

The Swiss experience is very instructive. I've read a book by the Swiss Major H. Von Dach. You might want to pick it up. Lot's of handy tips in there.

I had a very hard time cleaning my first Ishapore up. All that Cosmo is tough to get out of all those nooks and crannies.

For the next two I found it came in pretty handy.

Best,

L

[mamelukesabre]

There is a small RANGE of acceptable bullet diameters for a given bore diameter. Just because a given bullet manufacturer makes a .308 bullet for a 30-’06 doesn’t mean that the original INTENDED EXACT bullet diameter for a 30-’06 rifle was exactly .308” in diameter.

In fact, it wasn’t.

The 30-40 krag, the 30-’03, and the 30-’06 were originally spec’d to .3085” diameter. The 307 winchester is .309” diameter. The 300 Holland and Holland magnum is .309” diameter. THe 308 winchester is .308” diameter.
And each of these cartridges had a RANGE of acceptable bullet diameters. Also, the bore diameters of one rifle model are going to vary a small amount from one rifle to the next. I really don’t know off hand what these acceptable ranges or variations were for the barrels or the bullets.

To a handloader, all these cartridges are going to be reloaded with the exact same bullet...308” dia.

The other “foreign” thirty calibers in the second list I gave you are all generally reloaded with bullets that are .311” diameter...or at least bullets that are advertized as being .311” diameter. But a 303 british was originally spec’d for a .312” dia bullet. THe 7.7mm jap was a .313” dia bullet(I think). But there could very well be some slight differences in “recommended” bullet diameters from one bullet manufacturer to the next. ie, speer may not agree with hornady.

You can safely put a slightly smaller bullet in a cartridge meant for a larger diameter, but accuracy will suffer. For example, if you use .308 bullets in russian 7.62x54R ammo, you are not risking damage, you are just risking poor accuracy. THe russian round is generally recommended to use the same .311 bullet that is recommended in the 303 british. Even though the russian was originally spec’d for a .310” dia bullet and the 303 british originally spec’d for a .312 bullet.

What you don’t want to do is put a .312” bullet in a 308 winchester case. THat bullet is too big for a 308 and will cause chamber pressures to spike to potentially dangerous levels. And if you try to compensate by using less powder, you could end up with a squib.