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To: ancient_geezer
AG, two things. One, there are no "UN/IPCC modelers". I don't know if you're using this phrase out of habit or continuing to use it just to annoy me. Two, Ellsaesser is not a "UN/IPCC modeler", nor is he a Contributing IPCC author. His submission (as far as I can determine) was an unsolicited comment. My interpretation is based on this:

An Independent Review of the IPCC’s Third Assessment Report

My guess is that the late John Daly quotes from something Ellsaesser sent him.

The UN/IPCC assigns 1.5 watts to CO2 doubling rather than lower cloud cover variation which it presumes to be zero change in its models.

Not from what I can determine. Ellsaesser's submission does this.

Hmm doesn't leave much in the Earth's radiative balance for CO2 increases, taking into account the effects of changing solar activity throughout the period since the industrial revolution does it? ... Looks like the UN/IPCC modelers have a lot of reprogramming adjusting for solar activity effects on cloud cover to rebalance the thermal factors to me.

Your logical conclusion here is based on an inaccurate starting premise (i.e., the IPCC has not published what you are asserting it has published), and therefore the conclusion is not supported.

15 posted on 10/31/2006 11:24:19 AM PST by cogitator
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To: cogitator

Your logical conclusion here is based on an inaccurate starting premise

Which starting premise is that? I base my estimates on the basis of the lack of modelling of significant factors beyond mere thermal feedback factors of indeterminate magnitude or sign.

I don't see any modeling for effects on cloud formation of meteoric dust intercepted due to changes in orbital eccentricity per Muller and others, nor any attempts to model the effects of electron interactions enhancing cloud formation due to decadal and millenial modulations of cosmic ray fluxes.

Remember it doesn't take much variation in cloud formation due to such effects to totally dominate Earth's thermal balance through changes in albedo. A mere 2% change in cloud cover due to such effects since the Maunder Minimum wipes out even the highest upper boundries of thermal variation left from which hypothesize CO2 effects as a consequence of incomplete climate modelling.

Merely assigning solar activity effects to variations in solar brightness simply leaves far to much slack in the models leaving the assessment of direct radiation effects of CO2 impacts wide open to overestimations with the broad range of uncertainty that current climate models leave wide open for specualative assignment to the inappropriate drivers.

25 posted on 10/31/2006 2:37:24 PM PST by ancient_geezer (Don't reform it, Replace it.)
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