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A Mathematician's View of Evolution
The Mathematical Intelligencer ^ | Granville Sewell

Posted on 09/20/2006 9:51:34 AM PDT by SirLinksalot

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To: Tribune7; Coyoteman
So when someone points out that Stalin's authoritzed 1940 biography published in Moscow has him crediting Darwin ...

I wouldn't believe a word of it without corroboration. I don't have my source handy, but I'm pretty sure that the parts of it that tell about Unca Joe's heroic deeds in the Bolshevik Revolution and the Civil War, as well as the part where Lenin made him his successor, are known to be gross exaggerations or flat-out lies; hardly surprising, considering the source.

Whatever he read, it sure didn't "take"; Stalin elevated Lysenko and exiled and/or executed Vavilov and other normal biologists. The effect this had on Soviet agriculture should provide food for thought to those who would teach ID or creatinism as though they were science.

I wonder how much credit for his character and moral development should be given to the seminary where he claimed to have read Darwin. There is corroboration for the fact he studied for the priesthood.

461 posted on 09/23/2006 1:47:36 PM PDT by Virginia-American (What do you call an honest creationist? An evolutionist.)
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To: Virginia-American
The questions here (basically, what restrictions to place on abortion) are legal, not scientific ones, to be decided by legislatures and courts.

The science as you said is clear, the embryo is a living human being.

Where we disagree is that you think courts have the constitutional power to define when life begins. They don't, they never have and they never will.

That kind of power was never given to unelected judges. "The people" knew better.

462 posted on 09/23/2006 3:01:09 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07

No one is "defin[ing] when life begins. "

All they're doing is defining what is legal and illegal wrt abortion.

A verdict of "justifiable homicide" hardly means that the victim wasn't alive; it just means that no penalty attaches to killing him (because he was attacking you, or threatened to kill your neighbor, ...).

I don't like Roe v Wade, criminal statutes should be up to the states unless they're in conflict with the Federal Constitution or Federal statutes.

"Unelected" or not, the Justices who ruled on RvW were duly appointed. I don't think poor decisions constitute "bad behavior" as grounds for removal. I have been in states where judges are elected, and I didn't like it at all; I think the Fed. Const. got that provision right.


463 posted on 09/23/2006 5:00:13 PM PDT by Virginia-American (What do you call an honest creationist? An evolutionist.)
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To: BlackElk
Marx's book of his observations north and south is/was (in bad condition as early as 1968) in the reserve stacks of the New Haven Public Library. AND, of course, you are still wrong as to Lincoln and virtually all things relating to the Second War for Independence.

Ah well the entire world is wrong and Black Elk is right. Marx did work as correspondent for The Times and he did spend time in the U.S. while Lincoln was president, and every single biographer and historian of the era, except you, managed to miss it. How totally unforgivable of them. </sarcasm>

If the correspondent to whom you refer was surnamed Russell, he was probably the son of Lord Russell and therefore an unlikely press agent for Lincoln as well.

No, the correspondent in question was William Howard Russell, an Irishman as it happens and one of the most respected Times correspondent of the age and who covered the Crimean War, the Indian Mutiny, the War of Southern Rebellion, and the Franco Prussian War. He was of no relationship to the Earl of Russell whom you speak of.

Either Lord Russell or, more likely, Lord Palmerston then owned the London Times.

Neither man owned The Times. During the period of the War of Southern Rebellion, The Times was still owned by the same Walter family who had founded it in 1785.

It took Prince Albert of Coburg, Victoria's hubby, on his death bed to dissuade Palmerston and Russell of recognizing the Confederacy solely on the question of slavery, but not before the British laird Shipyards built and launched the magnificent Confederate rams Alabama and Tennessee.

Prince Albert died in December of 1861, almost a year before the Alabama was commissioned into confederate service. There were three ironclads named Tennessee in confederate service. The first was burned in the stocks before completion, the second was captured at New Orleans in 1862, and the third was captured at Mobile in 1864. None of the there was were built by the British, or ever left U.S. waters.

There was never any chance of the Palmerston government recognizing the confederacy.

What were your credentials as a conservative, if any??????

Considerably better than your credentials as an historian, if this post of your's is any indication.

464 posted on 09/23/2006 5:08:34 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: js1138; Tribune7
Yes I am. and Gould directly addressed the use you are making of his writings and directly called it a lie.

Just another thing Tribune7 has failed to absorb just today. You really have to ask, "Does he really not remember ANYTHING?"

Other points from the same post: Darwin was not really much of a gradualist, PE is not saltational, etc. You can look at T7's subsequent posts and see that he trolls for suckers with the same points repudiated there (and elsewhere) again and again. Oh, and of course, Ann Coulter's critics have no specifics, just name-calling. (Right!)

465 posted on 09/23/2006 5:52:50 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: Non-Sequitur
Nice.

Do you think he can admit any error on his part?

466 posted on 09/23/2006 5:54:54 PM PDT by balrog666 (Ignorance is never better than knowledge. - Enrico Fermi)
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To: VadeRetro

Gould did suggest that creationists who misquote him might not be lying. They could just be stupid.


467 posted on 09/23/2006 5:55:40 PM PDT by js1138 (The absolute seriousness of someone who is terminally deluded.)
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To: balrog666
Do you think he can admit any error on his part?

You want the poor guy to choke?

468 posted on 09/23/2006 5:56:28 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: VadeRetro
Just another thing Tribune7 has failed to absorb just today. You really have to ask, "Does he really not remember ANYTHING?" Other points from the same post: Darwin was not really much of a gradualist, PE is not saltational, etc. You can look at T7's subsequent posts and see that he trolls for suckers with the same points repudiated there (and elsewhere) again and again. Oh, and of course, Ann Coulter's critics have no specifics, just name-calling. (Right!)

Do you think he has evolved into a troll or has his innate nature simply shown forth for the glory of the lord?

469 posted on 09/23/2006 5:57:15 PM PDT by balrog666 (Ignorance is never better than knowledge. - Enrico Fermi)
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To: Non-Sequitur
You want the poor guy to choke?

I could answer that. But I might get suspended.

470 posted on 09/23/2006 5:58:15 PM PDT by balrog666 (Ignorance is never better than knowledge. - Enrico Fermi)
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To: js1138
Gould did suggest that creationists who misquote him might not be lying. They could just be stupid.

We're seeing an incredible failure to recognize contrary evidence right here on this thread. It's either Morton's Demon on steroids or something we're not allowed to directly and accurately characterize anymore. I don't think stupidity alone really works as an explanation, as no one functioning straightforwardly at this level could operate a PC, even running windows.

471 posted on 09/23/2006 5:59:42 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: VadeRetro
...PC, even running windows...<>Ooooooh. I resemble that. But I have also programmed on MVS and UNIX.
472 posted on 09/23/2006 6:01:53 PM PDT by js1138 (The absolute seriousness of someone who is terminally deluded.)
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To: balrog666

How these southron types can manage, time after time, to tell the most outrageous stories with perfect sincerity and a straight face is beyond me. It took me all of 5 minutes on Google to come up with the information that showed him to be wrong. They are truly shameless.


473 posted on 09/23/2006 6:02:53 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: js1138
Piker! I cut my baby teeth on RSX-11M before moving up to RSX-11D, IAS, VMS, UNIX, and [Shudder!] MS-DOS. All including me deserving of obsolescence, except that UNIX somehow still isn't quite.
474 posted on 09/23/2006 6:08:12 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: SirLinksalot

inneresting


475 posted on 09/23/2006 6:10:14 PM PDT by dennisw (Confucius say man who go through turnstile sideways going to Bangkok)
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To: js1138
But such a change occurring over a few thousand generations would be completely invisible in the fossil record. . . What Gould argued is that such "rapid" changes are typical, and the kinds of evolution visible in fossils is not spread evenly over time.

IOW, there is a "gap" in the fossil record and evolution is not gradual. Why not just concede the point. Maybe it is a religious thing with you.

476 posted on 09/23/2006 6:33:05 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: VadeRetro
Darwin was not really much of a gradualist,

Only in Vade Retro's world

Many large groups of facts are intelligible only on the principle that species have been evolved by very small steps.

477 posted on 09/23/2006 6:38:41 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: js1138
Were you flattering Vade when you said his worldview was faith based?

Why does implying that evolution is a religion with you upset you? I don't mean it as an insult, I'm just making an observation.

Suppose I said your worldview was Nazi-based? Would that be name-calling?

Sure. But the Nazis were very bad people. Why do you think religious people are bad?

478 posted on 09/23/2006 6:43:08 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Tribune7

The definition of a 'missing link' is a fossil that has been found. Since it is found it is called missing.


479 posted on 09/23/2006 6:46:29 PM PDT by FreedomProtector
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To: Tribune7
IOW, there is a "gap" in the fossil record and evolution is not gradual. Why not just concede the point. Maybe it is a religious thing with you.

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Name the gap. Name any place in the fossil record that constitutes an unbridgable gap.

480 posted on 09/23/2006 6:50:58 PM PDT by js1138 (The absolute seriousness of someone who is terminally deluded.)
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