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To: MineralMan

Sorry, but Karl Marx plainly stated evolution was one of the basis for his theories.


60 posted on 08/19/2006 8:30:02 AM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8)
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To: RaceBannon
Sorry, but Karl Marx plainly stated evolution was one of the basis for his theories.

The revolutionary process derived from Hegelian dialectic not the evolution. Darwin theory was LATER than Marxism.

64 posted on 08/19/2006 8:35:20 AM PDT by A. Pole (Evolution has demonstrated that the optimal IQ is the average IQ !)
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To: RaceBannon

"Sorry, but Karl Marx plainly stated evolution was one of the basis for his theories."

What silliness. Marx wrote before Darwin. I hope the rest of your "knowledge" is not that flawed, although I doubt it.


70 posted on 08/19/2006 8:41:36 AM PDT by MineralMan (non-evangelical atheist)
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To: RaceBannon
Sorry, but Karl Marx plainly stated evolution was one of the basis for his theories.

Really? So Marx based his writing on Darwin's theory, which wouldn't emerge until over a decade later?

Impressive. LOL.

76 posted on 08/19/2006 8:50:40 AM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: RaceBannon


That's interesting; that perfectly explains why he formulated his ideas before the release of "On the Origin of Species." It also explains why Lenin and crew employed Lysenkoism, a form of Lamarckian evolution, in place of Darwinian evolution and thus ruined Russian agriculture for years to come. It also explains how ridiculous it is to make an argument using guilt by association. Let's see the popular Reductio ad Hitlerum/Nazium argument:

Person A argues for proposition B
Person C shows that proposition B was favored by Hitler/Nazis (I guess we'll have to include Commies as well)
Thus, proposition B is false.

Let's substitute "evolution" for proposition B:

Person A argues for evolution
Person C shows that evolution was favored by Hitler/Nazis/Commies
Thus, evolution is false.

Do you see how stupid the reasoning is? Let's try "vegetarianism."

Person A argues for vegetarianism
Person C shows that vegetarianism was favored by Hitler/Nazis/Commies (In this case, Hitler)
Thus, vegetarianism is false

Guilt by association shows nothing. Is gravity false because people die when they fall off high-rise buildings? Is germ theory false because people die from diseases and because of chemical warfare? Is atomic theory false because of the bomb?

But, you know what's funny? Darwin never supported Social Darwinism and he distanced himself from it. The people you should really blame are Herbert Spencer, a fair bit of Thomas Malthus, ancient Spartan ideology of infantcide, Plato with his selective breeding of children, Franicis Galton, and others.

But you know what's really funny? It wasn't evolution that guided Hitler's footsteps, if anything, it was his perverted form of Catholicism. Forgotten "Gott Min Us?" It's funny how creationists assert that evolution is atheistic. Let's look at this logically:

Evolution is atheistic (Assumed for the sake of argument)
Hitler supported evolution to use in his fascist regime. (I'll accept that for the sake of argument)
Hitler was Catholic. Hitler used Catholicism to fuel his fascist regime. (This is actually historically correct)

If evolution is atheistic, and Hitler was a rabid Catholic that cut down anything not-Christian, why would support evolution? Methinks that creationists need to make up their minds.

Of course, it was Christianity that Hitler used, not evolution:

http://www.creationtheory.org/Essays/index.php?page=Hitler
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2437/nazis.htm
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_hitler.html
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/darwin_nazism.htm

But, of course, what else does one expect from the Discovery Institute. Like creationists they: a) quote-mine b) make use of the same arguments of "gaps in the theory" and even distort the current research c) try to shamelessly invoke Reductio ad Hitlerum arguments or Social Darwinism as if it somehow makes evolution false d) have religious motives apropos the Wedge Document e) they call biologists "Darwinists" instead of biologists.

In summary, the claim is worthless because a) it's irrelevant b) it's logically errant; guilt by association doesn't work and c) it's actually wrong.

NOTE: By creationists, I am referencing prominent IDers/creationists who have indeed been shown to quote mine, distort the research, use guilt by association fallacies, have religious not scientific motives, and call biologists Darwinists. I apologize if you take offense to it.


77 posted on 08/19/2006 8:54:06 AM PDT by Dante Alighieri
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To: RaceBannon
Karl Marx plainly stated evolution was one of the basis for his theories.

And you can cite the section in The Communist Manifesto which covers this?

90 posted on 08/19/2006 9:52:03 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy ("You can either accept science and face reality, or live in a childish dream world" - Lisa Simpson)
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