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To: sauron

I agree that there's no particular bar to evolution in the Genesis account. An awful lot of Jewish and Christian scholars believe as you do, and with good reason. They understand the primitive nature of the Genesis account and accept that human beings are capable of figuring out the details.

That said, the same can be said about some of the other creation myths. It's just a matter of explaining their allegories in a way that works.

The general order of things is:

1. There was nothing. (a blank slate on which to write)
2. The deity (of whatever nature) appears or already exists
3. The deity speaks or waves or whatever, and things appear, although the order is sometimes different. Earth, Sun, Moon, Water, etc.
4. Somewhere in the process, human beings appear, generally after the animals, because there has to be something for the humans to eat.

That pretty much covers most creation stories. And that's natural. Humans had logical powers quite early, or they wouldn't have been human.

The order above is logical, with each thing appearing before the thing that requires it appears. Not too complex, really.

If you look at the various creation stories in their basic foundations, they are all pretty much the same. Some are animistic, with players like the Crow and the Coyote. Others are more oriented toward invisible beings. But the order is essentially the same.


109 posted on 08/03/2006 2:00:46 PM PDT by MineralMan (non-evangelical atheist)
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To: MineralMan
That said, the same can be said about some of the other creation myths.

Actually, IIRC, the Bible was unique in suggesting a beginning.

In fact, science pooh-poohed the concept of a beginning until scientists proved there had to have been one.

The Bible said it long ago. Science figured it out only recently.

Shalom.

121 posted on 08/03/2006 2:15:40 PM PDT by ArGee (The Ring must not be allowed to fall into Hillary's hands!)
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To: MineralMan
That said, the same can be said about some of the other creation myths. It's just a matter of explaining their allegories in a way that works. The general order of things is: 1. There was nothing. (a blank slate on which to write) 2. The deity (of whatever nature) appears or already exists 3. The deity speaks or waves or whatever, and things appear, although the order is sometimes different. Earth, Sun, Moon, Water, etc. 4. Somewhere in the process, human beings appear, generally after the animals, because there has to be something for the humans to eat.

WRONG.

Your #1, #2 are entirely wrong.

Other religions have their deity using pre-existing matter to concoct the elements around us.

A key distinction of the Judeo-Christian belief is that, as the Penteteuch tells us, God pre-existed the material "stuff" of the universe. It did not create Him, He created it.

In addition to that, I have studied other creation accounts. The Judaic one is remarkable, and distinct from the others. Cf. North American, South American, African, East Asian, Pacific Islander, Norse, Celtic (pre-Christian), and other accounts.

You mentioned turtles. There are also serpents, eggs, etc. Some of them are quite silly. The Judaic one is remarkable in that it just about gets it right, and close to the right order, at that.

Sauron

147 posted on 08/03/2006 2:59:06 PM PDT by sauron ("Truth is hate to those who hate Truth" --unknown)
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To: MineralMan
Ah, but what about DUALISM? What about the logical inconsistency that dualism presents? (E.g., Yin/Yang)

Read C.S. Lewis Mere Christianity and see how he is able to knock down the concept of creational dualism. He makes an elegant argument, a convincing one, that MONISM is the only way, in the end. He cinches it.

...and once you are left with MONISM, you cut down 90% of the other creation accounts with one quick whack.

If you look at the various creation stories in their basic foundations, they are all pretty much the same. Some are animistic, with players like the Crow and the Coyote. Others are more oriented toward invisible beings. But the order is essentially the same.

Another blanket statement. You can't lump the "various creation stories" because, frankly, some of them are quite completely different and stand distinct from the others.

And you are also wrong about your last statement: The order is not essentially the same.

Study and compare them.

Sauron

152 posted on 08/03/2006 3:13:59 PM PDT by sauron ("Truth is hate to those who hate Truth" --unknown)
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To: MineralMan

That's like saying most cars are the same. They have tires, a steering wheel and seats. It ignores the details.

And the devil is in the details.


173 posted on 08/03/2006 4:05:14 PM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is more dangerous to the world now that Naziism was in 1937.)
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