Posted on 09/21/2005 3:17:54 PM PDT by jsh3180
Hey congrats! I do know one thing about birthing babies (o: If she hasn't had the last one in 24 hours, it isn't going to come out naturally. She would have to see a vet. Sounds like she is doing fine tho. Post pix!
The 2 of you might do well at the whelping of a litter of German Shepherds, or coonhounds, but leaving a Papillon bitch to whelp totally by herself has a very, very good chance of ending up not only with dead pups, but with the bitch toes up as well.
I've bred Papillons since 1987, so I know whereof I speak.
It's a good idea to lurk in the background, only offering help if the bitch is in active labor more than 2 1/2 hours, or if there is a green discharge, or if the mother is clueless about how to deal with pups (they can and do sometimes maul pups and kill them). Most Papillon bitches will freak if you try and leave them alone, and they will struggle to come with you. They want support.
Sheesh, sorry, Jsh. I meant that post earlier to go to Joe and Bubba, NOT to you. Sorry!!!!
How exciting thanks for the ping.
The class of 2004 scores again, let's hope the pups will be voting conservatives.
How exciting new babies!
After she is done let her take a walk outside as Joe sixpack said you DON"T want to WATCH her eat her placenta.
I am pretty tough but that part always partly intrigued me and partly made me want to puke.
Congradulations on the new babies.
The first weeks are great cause Momma dog will eat all there pee and poo then when you start weening them your job will be keeping the pen clean.
Enjoy!
You wrote "She's panting like Crazy"
The article you posted failed to mention the eating of the afterbirth.
Joe six pack was so kind to remind me of that part of the event.
Finally someone who knows what they are talking about! I hope the 3rd puppy was born okay...really folks it is a good idea to study up on whelping BEFORE the bitch goes into labor and ask advice from a dog breeders forum if you want serious answers...I have a bitch due any day now, I don't think I'll be posting for advice HERE if something goes wrong.
AFTER the dust settles and everything's taken care of, we might say something about prenatal care, preparation, and Having a Plan other than posting on FR!
wndy, good luck with your litter . . . hope all goes well. What breed do you have? (I'm a Lab person)
UPDATE!!!
>Well, it's a little late in the day to offer criticism about what's already under way<
Yep. Dystocia in a Toy breed can and does kill, without Veterinary intervention (when it's needed). Thank goodness Vetvetdoug happened upon the post. I was out last evening (at a meeting planning next year's local dawg show, as a matter of fact).
Advice that may work with a large breed, can kill a Toy bitch. Some bitches will whelp the first couple of pups, and then require a shot of Oxytocin or a C-section to rescue the last baby. Uterine inertia happens fairly often in Papillons.
The last litter I whelped (this past December) had me hanging onto the front end of the momma (who really, really wanted to bite me, and I can't blame her) while a red-faced Vet struggled to pull the very large first pup into the world. Little scamp was stuck tight as a cork (c;
If I'd "left her alone to let nature take its course", I'd have lost my girl dog, not to mention the 2 babies.
Had a maiden queen with her first litter - very small cat and a VERY big kitten. We were all worried about pelvic disproportion, but since I lived only a mile from my vet, we decided on a trial of labor and she popped that kitten out after only four contractions! Wound up taking her over to the vet anyhow because she passed the afterbirth and settled down to nurse her baby with absolutely no sign of further labor . . . turned out she had just the ONE kitten. She had tons of milk and he kept four spigots flowing . . . he grew like a weed and was four times his mother's size at 9 months . . .
On her second litter, though, she was obviously in distress and failing to progress, so we wound up with a C section and I had her spayed as long as they were in. Since she just had ONE kitten again . . .
Hence my rule of thumb that the number of kittens is inversely proportional to the stud fee!
I used to have Labs too but now I have Beagles. I find the Beagles easier but they have their challenges too. I didn't mean to be hard on the origional poster, who seems to have vanished anyway, but I know how often things can go wrong even if you do everything right. Asking this forum for whelping advice just seems like the longest way to go to "get there" in an emergency ;)
Since I got my Lab I've gotten heavily into agility and hunting retriever (mine is clearly NOT a conformation dog!), so I guess I'm stuck with Labs!
Our little blue Thai troublemaker is scheduled to visit the nice Veterinarian for a little operation, in the near future. One Siamese is quite enough, thankyouverymuch.
She's our first Siamese, and the only cat in a dog household. She has decided that her favorite game is "let's see how loud a dog can scream when you sneak up behind it and whack it upside the rump with your claws". Oh, and "ride the outraged Papillon" is her 2nd favorite.
The kid named her "Riley". I refer to her as the "kittiot", and my name fits more aptly (grin).
I have three Siamese, none left of my own breeding any more, but I got them from a good breeder that I trust. All are "fixed" because, well, one is a guy and you DON'T keep entire Siamese boys in the house, and also I'm out of the breeding business. Two of them, the older Blue Point male and female, are highly respectable elderly cats (14 and 15).
The third one, my daughter's Lilac kitten, is seven. She calls her Psycho Kitty - with good reason. Her favorite game is "Bat the Labrador's Nose".
The Lab, on the other hand, plays "Boost the Cats". She sneaks up behind them, places her muzzle between their hind legs, and flips them over. She managed to get the Lilac to do a full forward pike layout once. She doesn't play this game as often however since the big male picked himself up and clobbered her, despite his age and dignity.
But the middle cat (who is blind) WILL keep trying to steal her food. When "woof!" didn't help, she started picking the blind kitty up by the back and carrying her away from the food dish. Blind kitty was paralyzed with fright, but the dog didn't hurt her - she's very soft mouthed. Dog however was reprimanded for picking up cats and has been instructed to "LEAVE THE KITTY!" And I give the blind kitty a small feed on the counter while dog is eating her dinner.
Please Update! I hope everything is okay!
Appreciate that info...I don't have any experience with Papillons but always enjoy learning something new!
>Appreciate that info...I don't have any experience with Papillons but always enjoy learning something new!<
They're in interesting breed. They are the most successful Toy breed in AKC performance and agility, and they still have the best tracking ability. They are pretty game little hunters. My older male will tree a squirrel, and stay after it. The breed descended from dwarf spaniels. I had to move the bird feeder outside the fence, because my dogs caught more than one songbird. One brought a sparrow into the kitchen, and let it go. That made for chaos in the hour it took to catch the blasted bird and put it outside.
So far, they've not been totally ruined by overbreeding, but, sad to say, they've exploded in popularity in the past 5 or so years, ever since one went Best in Show at Westminster. It's getting more and more often you see Papillons with bad temperaments, and with genetic problems. In addition, you see more and more that look like some sort of Sheltie or Chihuahua mix. PT Barnum is alive and well!
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