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To: taxesareforever
"Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spritual things, but--more frequently than not --struggles against the Divine Word.... Martin Luther"

Here we see evidence that even intelligent men can say stupid things because they don't speak as well as they should. If humans use reason "more frequently" to struggle against the Divine Word, then he is as much admitting that at least sometimes men use reason to aid them in their service to God. (Much as Luther did as an expositor of the scriptures.) If men ever use reason in the service of spiritual things then how is it that "it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,"?

In this quote we see clear evidence that Luther was a mere man.

There is an interesting comparison, an philosopher (whose name I can't remember right now) once said (essentially) that man's existence as a moral being demands that he reject God. This is an interesting thought because it evidences a confusion of moral choices (choosing between good and evil) with the whole of human free will. That the ability to sin (or NOT sin) has been construed as the basis for what it means to be a man.

I think I can tie this back to the debate about science, naturalism and intelligent design.... The theory of evolution has no compelling need to make statements about the ultimate origin of life as it looks into the diversification of life; however, naturalism compels the science to serve its needs by proving naturalistic origins to life proper and by disproving a special place for man (with respect to any god). This then invites the equal and opposite "scientific sin" of intelligent design ... asserting that the science should uphold the claims of theist. If you can't put God under a microscope, what basis do you have to test either belief? Both hurt the science by demanding more of it that it can provide.

In essence, the naturalist are confusing the belief that the science can prove their position with the science itself. Liberty from a creator in science has become an important measure of what is scientific.
77 posted on 08/28/2005 9:21:47 AM PDT by Rurudyne (Standup Philosopher)
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To: Rurudyne
The theory of evolution has no compelling need to make statements about the ultimate origin of life

Perhaps 'Origin of the Species' begged the question of the origin of life itself, but it marked a continental divide between the old static, designed, purposeful universe and the modern, open-ended, uncertain universe

80 posted on 08/28/2005 9:32:35 AM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and open the Land Office)
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To: Rurudyne
"Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spritual things, but--more frequently than not --struggles against the Divine Word.... Martin Luther" Here we see evidence that even intelligent men can say stupid things because they don't speak as well as they should.

I don't consider what Luther said to be "stupid". I believe it to be true. Reason does not convince anyone of spiritual things. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. Reason cannot comprehend the spiritual. If it could, then it could be said that faith in God is of oneself, which is totally false.

88 posted on 08/28/2005 8:34:04 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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