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To: papertyger
He hasn't said that his wife is making unreasonable demands. He has asked us to believe that he is in the wrong and that he is constantly screwing up. Why should we here assume that his wife is being demanding? Why should we assume that he only sees himself in the wrong because his wife is being manipulative? Why shouldn't we take this man at his word?

I'll go further: Why assume that men who don't take the cynical view, who do take this man at his word, are "whipped" by women? They are merely addressing the content of his posts, which are, in short, "I am not mature and I am constantly screwing the pooch; I had no direction growing up; my wife has been patient, but I can't do anything right. I need help."

Some here would have this man believe that he is in the wrong by asking for help. I take the view that if he truly wants help and wants change to occur he will have to change himself, because he can change no-one else. In order to overcome the problems he claims to have (not the faults that many are projecting), he will need to acquire self-discipline. I have given him some tips on how to acquire it. If you don't like them, fine with me...perhaps he can learn self-discipline better from you than from me.

Of course, if you don't agree that he needs self-discipline, you either haven't read, or disagree with, the only valid conclusions that can be drawn from the face value of his posts. And that wouldn't surprise me in the least, considering the responses I've had here today.

439 posted on 12/20/2004 2:00:35 PM PST by Chunga
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To: Chunga
He hasn't said that his wife is making unreasonable demands.

The issue is not that she is making unreasonable demands. The issue is she's making demands unreasonably. Even though what she's asking for may seem trivial, she's talking divorce over not getting her way.

He has asked us to believe that he is in the wrong and that he is constantly screwing up... Why shouldn't we take this man at his word?

Because many of us have "been there, done that," been raised by single women, and/or recognize the manipulative camouflage of "I want you to help me clean, but I get to say what's clean enough."

Most men in our culture have been so thoroughly indoctrinated it never occurs to them to question female assumptions. Men have had "put the seat down" drilled into them so thoroughly, it seldom occurs to them to wonder why women aren't suppose to leave the seat up.

452 posted on 12/20/2004 3:13:08 PM PST by papertyger
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