Posted on 11/14/2004 12:05:15 AM PST by ConYoungBlack
I know this a message board and that I am new, but being a black man I have some problems with the tone of some of the comments earlier posted.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1279414/posts
While his music is a subjective matter of tatse, I don't think it warrants a "good riddance" shout upon the announcement of his death.
I am (as many know) probably the only conservative in my family and neighborhood. I am usually on the side of these things where I am the one that comes across callous and insensitive (yuk, I hate that liberal word).
In this case however, I can identify that is someones father, brother, son. I know that he chose his own road, butfrom accounts and reports, this man was mentally ill, and rich and famous. A deadly combo in my humble opinion. Especially in a business like the music business and around the pimps and hustlers he was surrounded with. It sounds like many used this mans unstable mind for a free ticket of their own to the point of not protecting him from himself and the leaches.
I find his death to be a sad tale, and just as sad as any tale of the death of Jimi Hendrix, Marvin Gaye, or Donny Hathaway. Not because think he was as talented as them. to the contrary. Because I think he was as human as them.
Not all rappers, or young blacks in rap media are deserving of death. This man, played the role of a clown. He fought his mental illness with drugs and attention. No one stepped up for him. In this case I feel sorry for him, and I hold this as another in the long line of indictments of the loss of family and community in the black culture and neighborhoods.
I was shocked by some of the more spiteful coments. Any and every death deserves either full inspection and comment with thought, or no comment at all.
Sorry to rant.
CYB
I am mad at the culture that bred and borne his lifestyle, not because he was black, or rich beyond the pale, or anything of that sort. I'm not a racist, a bigot or a homophobe, but I belong to the society that frowns on the gangster lifestyle, or the gay lifestyle, etc.
You don't praise destructive lifestyles or behaviors, and you don't praise people who willingly and knowingly under free will, participate in the destructive lifestyle or behavior.
"Doing drugs is part of the rapper lifestyle". That's bulls--- and everyone knows it.
Wow, no matter WHAT we're discussing at our house, when the musicians get together the discussion usually ends up being about some wild set or some amazing audience or some new deal that's being made. Then the new masters/CDs/bootlegs come out of the duffel-bag and everyone has to sit and listen.
At least that's the way Thanksgiving is shaping up at this point... I think my brother's band is coming, so it should be interesting. (Thanksgiving at mom's is between gigs time and milewise this year.)
Yes, Dolly was was done with Mitch but not certain about "rainbow bridge". The only thing Buddy added was the fact that he beat the drums so hard that they actually sounded like a damn machine gun in the song machine gun. But that's about it.
I play a 68' Les Paul special - for that gruff zepellin/Mayall blues sound, and I also play a 59' American Strat (much like SRV's number 1 - I had it customized to match his set up) for that plink plunk Hendrix, SRV, clapton sound. I play in the E and A chord families most of the time (old blues men never play outside).
Go listen to the band of gypsies, live at the fillmore east. It sucked ass. Compare to Isle of wWight or Woodstock or Berkelley performances, and then you tell me whick three piece was the best set up for Jimi's sound and energy.
Just from reading this thread OBwhatever sounds like a self centred jerk who took the gift of life for granted and hurt those around him.
If he was mentally ill and did not seek help or if his family did not encoourage him too get help that is not good.
he made his choices and didn't appear to respect himself or the gift of life that God gave him.
Now it's between him and his maker.
To blame it on others around him is not right either because there are bottom feeders everywhere and it is personal choice to keep them out of ones life.
Personally, I think it's wrong to talk badly about the newly dead. My usual response is God have mercy on his soul, and be with his loved ones.
Don't know anything really about him, but I always feel sad about those who burn themselves out young.
Okay then, here's a loaded quesiton - why are SO many musicians so self- and other- destructive? What is it about being able to pour your heart out on stage that seems to overwhelm all self-discipline?
Not all musicians do it - but compaired to the "regular" people I know, there is a definite pattern that emerges within the community. And it's not all attributable to "fame" - even without that, I've seen really good talent get ground up and killed by the personal issues of musicians themselves.
Is it just the self-expression part, or do certain kinds of music seem to lead to more problems?
The only musical group that doesn't seem to have this problem as much is gospel, and they seem to have bigger problems AFTER they get famous... pride I guess.
Yeah dude, that was cool. Go get that tough rapper who's in the morgue and show him who's boss. Sometimes I am simply amazed at the lack of human dignity we ascribe to. No Mr.Jones wasn't a "good" guy, but he sure wasn't the "gangster" you suppose he was either. If you had heard any of his raps, he was mainly a clown, a comedian sort of raper. I grant that he was a lousy adult, and an irresponsible one to boot, but so is my brother and many of his little friends and sure as hell won't point out that they were al "little thugs" if they were to die from some jackass decisions they made.
At the end of the day, take a deep breath and remember that this guy was a person. An irresponsible adult, and a faulted human being yes, but a human being nonetheless. He made criminal mistakes of a non violent manner for which he paid a debt to society. He then (from all accounts) got out of jail and tried to clean himself up. Sometimes people are too far gone to clean up (as this was probably the case with this guy).
Making comments such as "I won't getting all choked up over another rap assholes death" neither adds to the point or remedies the ailment that any substantive point could be invested toward. Keep that to yourself. Making that coment out loud shows a disdain that runs deeper than visceral, skin deep level into an evidence of pent up anomous. For what? Why does it matter in such a negative way to the point of evoking wordsthat vent the temptation to piss on a grave, or pile on?
I don't get. Keep in mind that I am no "bleeding heart" asshole either. I know full and well theat this guy was an irresponsible and wreckless adult, but he was also young, and I can't celebrate the death of youth in any event.
Perhaps you can, have at it.
Can't answer that.
I know I hear testimonials from pro Musicians that survive the "party life" and have hit bottom on the Christian Channel were they now perform.
I saw Candi Staton who is now has a show on TBN and she is a survivor.
Even everyday people get hooked on the Devils Dusts Meth/Cocaine/heroin and if lucky they survive.
Maybe in the music world like in Hollywood there is no spiritual support as it is liviing amongst others of the same ilk.
He did it to himself, and it's up to him and his maker to hash out a deal over.
I'm neither black or a "stuffed shirt Conservative", I have feelings for others who suffer, but I do know that drugs kill and that's what exactly happend, he didn't suffer unless someone forced him to do the drugs.
What?...............Drugs kill? Oh mi gosh, News at eleven.
However, your point had a much more personal tone top it than the sterile but friendly informercial about the dangers of drug use that you now ascribe to it.
Suit yourself, but your post and others like it came across as very "cigar in the mouth".
I feel that it's careless.
I disagree. You've done such a "full inspection" before he died. You didn't need to do one after his death. But the vast majority of people who commented on ODB probably didn't even know he existed until they read his obit.
Grow thicker skin.
I heard somewhere that the guys that make it big in rap music are really geeky types that are just imatating the thug thing.
I don't know however don't watch music videos or listen to hardcore rap.
Wasn't an Uncle of yours that turned you on to FR. I forget his handle but he resembles what little I have seen you post.
I tended to ignore him to the point I forgot his screenname.
If they have to be phony by imitation, that makes it even harder for me to accept. Even musicians, no matter what genre we talk about, can exercise a modicum of self-control even if they are pinned down by the thumb of record labels and agents.
First of all, welcome to Free Republic. It is wrong to speak ill of the dead, but many people here are disgusted with that type of lifestyle, and it tends to spill out.
For real fun, try defending Martha Stewart around here. You want mean? The knives come out ;-D
I have nothing to say about ODB, but I do have some commentary on your perspective.
Keep in mind that there are alternatives to both conservatism and liberalism...I am personally not a conservative, although my political ideology aligns fairly closely with conservatism.
Conservatism is a political philosophy. That is why people who agree on issues A,B and C also often agree on D, E and F....the philosophy underlying all their positions is the same. But that political philosophy also rests on the rest of the philosophy, the conceptions of right and wrong, the nature of knowledge etc.
The whole notion of 'be mad at the culture' is in direct conflict with conservative philosophy...in fact it is rooted in liberal philosophy. Conservative philosophy strongly embraces personal and individual responsibility, as opposed to the group responsibility and blame of liberals. That is why liberals see 'from each according to his ability to each according to his needs' as essentially good...the proper role of governement, while conservatives see it is a violation of individual rights.
While I am using ODB to make the point, it is not so much about him. But the fact is that there is no culture to blame. We all make our choices, and have to live, or die, with the consequences. If the culture is to blame, why aren't you dead on that studio floor? Because you made better choices.
Even for liberals, it is difficult to blame culture in this case. It would be far easier for a relatively anonymous 'victim' but the fact is that he was a far greater contributor to this culture than he was influenced by it. If nothing else, he glamorized the poor choices he made, (food stamps in a limo?!?) and invited the next generation to follow in his folly. He perpetuated it. To the extent that any individual can be, ODB was the culture that you want to blame. There is no 'culture' there are collections of individuals. Some may be more influential than others, but at the very least, you would have to consider him pretty high up on that tier of influence.
As I said, my post is not so much about ODB. It is about you. I see a lot of liberal philosophy in you...but the fact that you're here pretty much means your heart is in the right place. We've all been pretty indoctrinated with liberal philosophy, it takes attention to realize when it is influencing us inappropriately.
Welcome. I hope you learn a lot and contribute much here.
Have a great day.
There's a big difference between being a self-destructive artist, such as Ed "Guitar Slim" Jones, and being part of a lifestyle of the "rapper" which seems to embrace and glorify so many social pathologies.
Sad that this way of life is viewed in many circumstances as the "first option" for "success".
I wouldn't put the death of ODB on the same level as the death of Arafat. They are world's apart in my Rogues Gallery. In fact, ODB barely merits a mention.
Of course, they say these things happen in threes. Hmmmmm. Who's next?
Thanks for the info! But he died young so we get to remember Jimi in his unsullied prime.
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