To: Darlin'
FOLLOWING--PERHAPS MORE THAN YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT THE QUIX. PLEASE AVOID IF NOT CONSTRUCTIVELY INTERESTED, PLEASE.
I DO NOT EXPECT AT ALL TO RESPOND IN THE THREAD TO ANY RESPONSES. I MAY NOT RESPOND IN PRIVATE MESSAGES. I HOPE THIS CAN HELP BRING SOME TERMINAL CLOSURE TO SUCH EXCHANGES.
Darlin':
"Yes, of course, you were."
I hope to make one post (this one) today and leave it be--ENOUGH TOSSING WORDS AT ONE ANOTHER ON SUCH AN ISSUE!
Re: the above satire "of course, you were.": Actually, I was. There are probably 6 churches I've visited in the last 2 years here. One my grandfather started. Another my parents helped get and keep going two different times with a precious pastor who'd been a missionary to the Navajos. When I posted that comment, I had been reflecting on how dramatically they'd changed.
The leadership had become arrogant, blind, self-righteous, narrow, closed to input etc. Music in a couple of cases was measured routinely at 95-104 db and in one case it was clearly up over 125db for more than an hour. It was like a different planet in terms of what I was used to and expected. Other churches of the 6 or so were not as bad but were still markedly different from what I hoped for. I felt like a fish out of water in all of them.
Thankfully, I just recently finally found a small new church where the pastor, though young, came from a solid pastor's family where the pastor fiercely protected family time. He had a great relationship with his two sons. It clearly makes a difference when leadership hasn't grown up in a seriously dysfunctional family.
SO, YES, I WAS thinking of local groups and trying to see what common themes there were that I might reflect on and learn from in all this. You may not believe the truth but that doesn't stop it from being the truth.
You may have never met any character like me. But that doesn't stop me from being me.
RE: cliques etc. [more or less as FREEPMAILED to Jim R]:
BTW,
I didn't originate the clique insight. Someone else did to me some time ago and I reluctantly agreed it was true [incidentally, multiple people have affirmed their agreement with that insight by PM the last 24 hours]. I declined to inquire who was involved and STILL DO NOT wish to know nor even surmise myself. And I have not. I have not even allowed myself to ponder it at all in terms of size or identities.
I don't recall what triggered me mentioning the clique issue. Some assault, as I recall.
As I noted above, I have not allowed myself to even go there AT ALL. Whoever it was, (I don't remember who but someone who's opinion and experience hereon I respected highly), may have an idea but I don't and I didn't ask them. I refuse to even allow myself to come up with a name list. I certainly wouldn't share it with anyone but maybe Piper etc. if I did and even then it would be just to check out my perceptions. But I refuse to even go there myself in my private prayer closet.
I think occasionally, when snipey comments seem to take on the character of haughty elites throwing rocks at the serfs,
it's a reasonable thing to throw out without naming anyone.
Let everyone consider their own conscienceS and adjust accordingly.
Perhaps part of the loud noise about the issue is the common phenomena of something being too true for comfort so the best defense becomes an offense.
Someone else has suggested that the week and stress of the Marine etc. has gotten to all of us. Probably some truth to that.
Someone else has noted that tirades get more frequent and intense later in the evening--probably after alcohol consumption. Probably some truth to that.
But, mostly, I honestly think, it's communciation styles, personality differences, petty sensibilities and fierce convictions, feelings about same.
RE: I have 0.00% doubt in your enormous capacity to question virtually anything I say. I think you are awesomely talented in that regard. You may well even be among the best at it.
My 100% true thought process before posting that was: I wonder what I could say that would be 100% true and 100% positive praise. Then those 3 sentences came immediately to mind. I did not analyize them beyond considering whether they were true and could I own them in my heart. I felt I could so posted it immediately. It has long ceased to be a very big issue that some things I can do for others are at my own expense. In hindsight, I can see why some would consider that satire. It was not felt nor written as satire at the time. I realize people without a clue about my heart will believe what they will.
One clever poster accused me of having a mix of:
--a Narcissistic Personality Disorder (301.81 in DSM IV DRAFT VERSION) and an Antisocial Personality Disorder (301.7)
NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER CRITERIA:
A pervasive pattern of gradiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts as indicated by AT LEAST 5 of the following:
1) a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
2) preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty or ideal love.
3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
4) requires excessive admiration
5) a sense of entitlement i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable4 treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations.
6) is interpersonally exploitative i.e., takes advantage of other sto achieve his or her own ends.
7) lack of empathy: unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.
8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.
9) arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes.
My self-assessment as well as comments of supervisors, colleagues, clients and others who know me best:
Mother was poor white trash in Texas pulling cotton with blacks at age 6. Never let me evidence any hint of uppityness. Besides that, I've always imagined that washing Jesus' feet would be one of the most wonderful things. And absent Jesus, about anyone who Loved Him would be almost as good to serve.
We all appreciate admiration but it's not a huge issue at this point in my life. Have lived plenty without it and had plenty of it.
Most people who know me well characterize me as the MOST EMPATHETIC person they've ever met.
1) above--Not at all. For much of my life, much more the opposite. Now, pretty satisfied with who I am and what I've become. 3,000+ students in Taiwan and China characterized me as the most loving Westerner they'd ever met and many the most loving person they'd ever met, including considering their own parents. THAT'S PRETTY HUMBLING!
2) No. Lived around plenty of that hollow stuff beginning with our millionaire neighbor and his very miserable family life.
3) special--yeah--everyone is--and certainly I've been called a bird of rare plumage (to put 'strange' politely) all my life. No big deal at this point. Is awkward at times to fit in various groups.
4) No! Have an easy time of serving even enemies often enough.
5) No! Have met myself in painful mirrors often enough. I know that humanness at it's raw original best and worst is only fit for the dung heap of eternity. Only Christ's Blood and Spirit enable any of us to rise above the sewer in any respect.
6) No! More the opposite. Too easily let others exploit me too often. But I'd still rather take that stance than the opposite.
7) No! Empathy is a strong point.
8) No! Gave up wanting to be anyone else or have anyone else's stuff many decades ago.
9) No. Closest people assert quite otherwise about me.
ANTISOCIAL PERSONALITY DISORDER 301.7
A. Current age at least 18. Yeah. 57.
B. Evidence of Conduct Disorder with onset before age 15. No.
C. A pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15, as indicated by at least 3 of the following:
1) failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are gounds for arrest.
No. 1 speeding ticked on honeymoon across Southern California desert from Phoenix. 1 parking ticket. That's all.
2) irritabiltiy and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults.
No. Tended to be chicken and ran from all but 2 fights and tried to one of those. When forced, would bend the fingers of opponent back until he gave up. All in teen years.
3) consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations.
No. Often been called too responsible.
4) Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead.
Not really. I prefer to be spontaneous. But have good planning skills and use them as needed for my priorities.
5) deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure.
Not at all. Often been called overly transparent--even alarmingly so, to some.
6) reckless disregard for safety of self or others.
No. Overly cautious about safety, usually.
7) lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
DEFINITELY NOT AT ALL!
D. Occurence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of Schizophrenia or a manic episode.
Not applicable.
The following is kindly offered by a wise stalwart of TM. I couldn't, in clear conscience own it verbatim as offered but as close to that as I could own, here it is:
1) don't recall where the clique reference arose, but it did not originate from me
2) apology is extended to any for any offense. It has never been a goal to offend. Sometimes, I've sought to prick a conscience for enlightenment--but really--never to offend. I consider even Shrillery to have been originally made in God's image. I strongly prefer to help people be more fulfilled, satisfied, overcoming, caring in their lives, relationships and communications. I hate rock throwing.
3) will post links as applicable to information for the thread as circumstances present themselves. I've currently changed addy's to get rid of a bunch of spam. Not sure when I'll start up a long list of newsletters again. Most of the contributions I might make of a doc sort come from those sources. Sometimes I might search the net for threat related stuff but usually, it's not my strength or priority.
Some of you may recall:
Some are great at Googling.
Some are great at analyzing.
Some are great at connecting dots.
Some are great at drawing from their military experiences and/or backgrounds.
Some are great at drawing from their cultural understandings.
Some are great at translating.
Some are great at supportive websites.
Some are great at interpreting.
Some are great at networking, connetcting, referring to proper authorities.
Some are great at praying.
Some are great at contributing from their hobbies and/or past work experiences and connections.
Some are great at pondering and asking good questions.
Some are great at connecting dots and themes and/or implications across a diversity of seemingly disconnected bodies of data and disciplines.
If a toe declares that it is king or queen or more valuable than a finger; if a hand insists that all be hands; . . .
Is that enhancing the whole?
4) sorry you feel the need to educate me regarding my posts; will attempt to shorten my posts and keep religious references to a minimum.
I don't quite know how to even imagine battering or cooperating with the efforts to batter me and my idiosyncracies into the TM POLITICALLY CORRECT form. Many times, it feels like and appears to be a terminal incompatibility. I periodically try real hard and routinely at least earnestly to conform as much as lies within me to perceived expectations.
I realize, no one and especially me is EVER going to please everyone hereon. But it seems like a real chore to avoid sending some folks into a screaming tirade merely at the sight of my name or whif of my breath 100 feet away. At some point, that has to be their problem.
However, I don't really like to even mildly annoy anyone but Shrillery et al. It grieves my spirit and wears me down more than I like to admit.
I don't know that I can persistently conform all posts to 1-3 per day of 2 well polished paragraphs only with links to 2-3 confirming sites. That's just rarely me.
When the message seems to be harshly, loudly, pointedly, haughtily: CONFORM STRICTLY AND NARROWLY to our expectations or terminally out of our faces . . . , I probably can't rise to that standard very well, very often. I've never fit anyone's tidy box. And I've almost died trying a few times. It just never works. It has never worked.
5) will keep your suggestions in mind and apply them to the best of my ability in keeping with my conscience and personhood.
5) back to work on the threat of terror facing us.
I DO NOT EXPECT TO RESPOND AT ALL TO ANY RESPONSES TO THE ABOVE, IN THIS THREAD.
I MAY NOT RESPOND EVEN IN PRIVATE MESSAGES.
Cheers. Happy and productive TMMMMING!
1,962 posted on 06/28/2004 10:38:56 AM MDT by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)