Mel Gibson says his wife could be going to hell

MSNBC ^ | 02/10/04 | Jeannette Walls

[Ol' Sox]

Me:Is this an ex cathedra position or is the attempt to harmonize the "incompatible" doctrines? I seek to know, not argue.

You:But all defined dogmas share in the ordinary infallibility of the magisterium which applies to all the doctrines that have always been taught and believed by Catholics.

I'm sorry, but how are two incompatible doctrines reconciled by saying that they are both infallible? The medieval Roman Catholic church maintains an exclusive position and the present day church an inclusive one - or so it would seem.

Since both positions share in the infallibility of the magisterium, the only reconciliation I can imagine is that the catholic church (small c) is not limited to the Romans, but rather the body of Christ.

[BlackElk]

You people are absolutely relentless in your attacks upon the papacy and the Church and ought to be regarded accordingly.

The necessary implication of your post is that "St." Marcel Lefebvre, patron "saint" of the excommunicati, wallowed in sin for years from 1965 until 1988 not leading his gullible followers out of the Church of Rome after he had already achieved, as head of the Rota or Marriage Court, the opening up of the regime of annulment mills in the Church of Rome.

Either you are a sedevacantist or you reject the authority of the papacy itself. It is NOT enough to say that you may pray for this poor heresy ridden pope that he may return to YOUR church. You do not get to work the cafeteria and call yourself Catholic and the persistent practice of scandalizing others to reject actual Authority is no moral merit either.

Bushwah!

[Petronski]

I know I know, it's all one big happy church and there is only one catechism. In practice it's a very different story.

But that's a common complaint among conservative Catholics: everyone SHOULD be going by the same--the only--Catechism, but they're not.

[biblewonk]

But that's a common complaint among conservative Catholics: everyone SHOULD be going by the same--the only--Catechism, but they're not.

And I was talking about the differences among conservative Catholics. I wasn't even talking about the CINO's.

[O.C. - Old Cracker]

900+ million Catholics cannot all be wrong

Well now, surely you can't be using the sheer weight of numbers to bolster your argument? I won't pursue that any further except to say that it's holey enough to march a division through. You previously attacked the Protestant side of Christendom because you suspected me to be of that bent, but when I didn't respond as predicted, you hid behind the flying buttresses of Notre Dame.

Look, I don't blame you, but I do blame your leaders for being so afraid of losing their grip on power that they will resort to any means to keep the faithful in line. Human foibles aside, including the robe wearing pedophiles, monetary indulgences, confession on the hoof, and Purgatory, etc., etc., the Catholic church needs to be raised to the ground along with the rest of the so-called Christian churches. The Christians in the more restrictive Asian countries (China, Laos etc.) know something we don't about worshipping God. They avoid red tape and they steer clear of the government sanctioned "Christian" churches.

When we finally lose our freedom to worship as we please in this country, then we'll really understand true faith. Until then, all this talk is just that. Talk.

[sarasota]

"Facts", opinions or The Truth? You decide.

[BlackElk]

Is Mel's daughter preparing for vows as an SSPX nun? Do y'all have nuns????? Do you have a source for the persistent claim that Mel Gibson is among you (i.e. in schism or whatever you want t imagine your sect to be since it is certainly NOT in communion with JP II as pope?). That he has established a Tridentine only chapel with or without permission from the likes of Mahoney (which permission or non-permission is also not clear to the best of my knowledge) does not make him either a sedevacantist or a schismatic of SSPX. Where is the evidence????? If Mel Gibson rejects this pope or the papacy in general, he is NOT Catholic. His movie is still a very worthwhile movie as it would be if it were produced by a non-Catholic like, say, Franky Schaeffer. The movie is the movie. The Faith is the Faith. Schismatics are excluded from the Catholic Faith by their own pernicious behavior. YOPIOT is NOT Catholicism. No one authorized YOPIOT.

[dangus]

You even show me where it says "redemption covers muslims." It doesn't.

"I never read in the Bible once where salvation came from any other place than Jesus,"

This is why I call you "Servant of Satan!" You slander His annointed apostles for the express purpose of destroying His Church! Where did the Council ever say that salvation came anywhere but through Christ? What he council said is that those who seek Christ, without knowing him by the name of Jesus, shall find him!

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)"

Now I shall say nothing more to you, Servant of Satan.

[O.C. - Old Cracker]

Your text sizing button must be broken!!!!

[BlackElk]

You are posting the Feeneyite heresy. Feeney repudiated it and returned to the Church. You ought to do the same.

[dangus]

>>Lumen Gentium and the Catechism<<

>I'm sorry, I guess my Bible doesn't have those in it either.<

O, I should respond to this since you sent it before I wrote that last part:

You fool! Those the sources you cited when you stole that quote from context.

[O.C. - Old Cracker]

What the heck?!! Who is diaper-boy in this picture?

[CobaltBlue]

I am not the best source for explanation of the Catholic religion. There are good books at Catholic bookstores which are aimed at Protestants, some even directly aimed at fundamentalists. You can probably also find good information on the Internet. There is also a Catholic cable channel, EWTN. They have a pretty good website.
http://www.ewtn.com/

Seek and ye shall find.

[Capriole]

Respectfully, this is not what the Catechism says. There is a long section in the Profession of the Faith about this: the section on "Who Belongs to the Catholic Church?" The answer, in brief, is that all believers who declare Christ and have been been baptized. Lumen Gentium 16: ". . .those too may achiever eternal salvation." Yes, it says "outside the church there is no salvation," but it encompasses a pretty broad definition of what the church is that you can't be outside of.

[Maximilian]

You are posting the Feeneyite heresy. Feeney repudiated it and returned to the Church. You ought to do the same.

I expect better of you. To call the defined dogma "No salvation outside the Church" a heresy is itself heretical. Feeney denied Baptism of Blood and Baptism of Desire, which is a separate isse. I specifically mentioned both in several of my post on this thread. Nevertheless, Feeney never repudiated his position, and had his excommunication lifted anyway.

[BibChr]

...the reporter asked the star if Protestants are denied eternal salvation. “There is no salvation for those outside the Church,” Gibson replied. “I believe it.” He elaborated: “Put it this way. My wife is a saint. She’s a much better person than I am. Honestly. She’s, like, Episcopalian, Church of England. She prays, she believes in God, she knows Jesus, she believes in that stuff. And it’s just not fair if she doesn’t make it, she’s better than I am. But that is a pronouncement from the chair. I go with it.”

...and this guy — who clearly has no clue about the Biblical good news of Jesus — is telling us Jesus' story.

My concerns remain.

Dan
What Is Biblical Christianity?

[BlackElk]

Wiccans???????? Wiccans???????? Pooooooor babies!!!!!!!!

Witchcraft is not a path to salvation!

[newgeezer]

Mel thinks we're going to hell. He said it's "a pronouncement from the chair." I can only guess that's the chair where the guy wearing the big hat and kissable ring sits.

Man, if only the Bible would just come out and say we need to listen to that guy! I suppose we were doomed from the start.

[Chi-townChief]

Anyone can be going to hell regardless of religious affiliation; just the way it is.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

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