Peggy Noonan: 'Passion' and Intrigue- The story of the Vatican and Mel Gibson's film gets curiouser

Opinion Journal ^ | 01/22/04 | Peggy Noonan

[kjam22]

Well I'm not Catholic, so I don't care what the Pope thinks (especially after Iraq).

Yeah.... really the most offensive statement in the whole article is the one calling the Pope the "Holy Father". Only God is holy. Period.

[beckett]

Possibility #2 offers an interesting take that I hadn't thought of before. But to me it seems most likely that #1 is what we're seeing happening here.

[AAABEST]

Just a FYI. We call all of our Priests "Father" and whether you agree with it or not, Catholics view the Pope as holy.

Nobody is intending to call him God and you knew such when you were writing your post. You're just using a semantic argument to justify your distaste for our faith.

I'm guessing I'm wasting my time if you're the type of protestant who puts his dislike of Catholics above charity to all men, but wouldn't it be nice if we could try to put that nonsense aside?

God bless and keep you.

[kjam22]

You're just using a semantic argument to justify your distaste for our faith.

You're using the "depends on the meaning of the word holy" argument. Right?

[Mike Darancette]

The pope offered his personal opinion regarding the movie. He doesn't want his opinion to be taken as an official teaching.

So the Pope did say it and the higher up are lying because the Pope told them to?

[dangus]

Ummmm.... no.

[Romulus]

You seem to be talking about Bernini's baldachino (the canopy over the main altar, not the "pulpit"), located at the basilica's transept. You say this seems odd and out of place, but honestly, being utterly unfamiliar with what's going on here, you're not one to judge. The "gates of hell" as you're pleased to call them (oh, my aching sides!) is the entry to the "confessio" -- a spot under the altar that's directly over the tomb of the apostle Peter.

If it seemed creepy to you I'm guessing it's because you come from an anti-artistic tradition that eschews complexity and symbolism -- it doesn't have to carry the same semiotic freight because it's been deliberately stripped and emptied out. You're afraid because you don't understand what you saw and didn't take the trouble to find out. Also, very likely, because you came to it with a negative attitude to begin with.

[thesummerwind]

Ummmm thanks.

I hope that didn't sound accusatory.

It just sounded like the producer was part of an evil combination.

[P.O.E.]

Also, very likely, because you came to it with a negative attitude to begin with.

Much wisdom in those words. How many of us and how often does a cloud precede our observations.

[AAABEST]

Well I'm not going to engage in a circular argument our belief system's inticacies, no good ever comes from them.

Can we both just agree to try to be charitable to each other and our respective values, or would that be asking too much?

[dangus]

Well, it is a little odd to publish hearsay as a critical blurb. One could get the idea that the pope had said something publicly. So while I don't blame Mel at all, one could say his eagerness contributed to the odd situation. (If I skid out of control and hit a tree, it's not the tree's fault, but the tree is a contributing factor.)

Honestly, I think I would've done the same thing.

[presidio9]

I don't care what the Pope thinks (especially after Iraq). I'm going to see the film and I'm betting it will be great. Too bad for honest Catholics like Noonan their Vatican can't get their story straight.

Maybe you would care a bit if you had a better understanding of who John Paul II is, and the role of the Pontif. He is neither a political statesman in the traditional sense, nor a movie critic. He is a spiritual guide. Period.

[Barnacle]

Mel is as much or more of a Catholic than any of us who call ourselves Catholic.

[over3Owithabrain]

I know who he is - and who he isn't. He's not the true "Holy Father" nor the way to Him. Period.

[Romulus]

curiouser and curiouser...

In all likelihood the Pope was speaking in an unguarded "off-the record" comment that was never intended for quotation. This practice is recognised by journalists around the world in their dealings with secular leaders, but somehow when the Pope is overheard thinking out loud the rules are supposed to change. The Pope it seems is the only prominent person in the world not entitled to this courtesy. Nor is it merely courtesy, for long experience shows that the intense scrutiny to which statements by prominent figures are subjected, and the disproportionate influence those statements can have, makes it essential that short of suspected malfeasance, good order relies on public figures being allowed to specify which of their private utterances are intended for public disclosure. Potential critics of this ethic should recall that its abandonment will have the perverse effect of making public figures less visible, since they will withdraw even further as a means of self-preservation. No one's interests would be served by such a development.

[presidio9]

I know who he is - and who he isn't. He's not the true "Holy Father" nor the way to Him. Period.

The thing I like about my religion is that we make a point of not denouncing others. Come to think about it, the Pope does this too.

[Askel5]

I guess I don't ascribe to the Pope the same need for "off the record" remarks (to be kept quiet) as I do our President and his Clymer-ish language.

I find it hard to believe that -- having been so scrupulous in the previewing and promoting of the movie to date -- Gibson's folks would play fast and loose with the Pope.

[over3Owithabrain]

Matthew 23:9 "Call no one on earth your father; you have but one Father in heaven." -JESUS

Not bashing; not semantics. Truth.
BTW, the Vatican has done quite a bit of denouncing. not the least of which in the last year - Iraq, capture of Saddam, etc. You can spin, insult, and get as defensive as you want. I have no need for the pope, nothing against Christ-loving Catholics.

[over3Owithabrain]

BTW, like your tagline. That's one religion we agree fully on!

[ZULU]

Political Correctness comes to the Curia.